The Watchtower of Destruction: The Ferrett's Journal - Maddening Fragments Which Refuse To Assemble Themselves Into A Coherent Philosophy
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Maddening Fragments Which Refuse To Assemble Themselves Into A Coherent Philosophy
Sometimes, you have to leave people behind, because they're either going to catch wood or drown. You try to help them learn how to swim, and they scream, "I know what I'm doing!" You reply, "Well, it looks a lot like drowning" and they tell you to fuck off. The lesson? Everybody thinks they know what they're doing, and most won't listen to other people's advice until they've hit bottom. And a lot of people don't even listen then. You can't help them if they won't change - and for most people, changing means admitting that they're wrong.
When helping someone out, you have to think about what you're teaching them. If someone's drinking all the time, giving them money and a sympathetic ear teaches them that they can keep drinking and someone will bail them out. If someone's prone to screaming fits where they call you an asshole and then say they're really sorry, coming back to them teaches them that they can act this way and continue to have friends. If someone's prone to getting too clingy and cries whenever they're upset, giving in and spending all of your time with them teaches them that if they cry hard enough, they will get what they want. There is a Pavlovian nature to being supportive. If you reinforce negative behaviors with too much kindness, then you wind up getting walked on. And yet you must find a way to be kind.
A smart, literate person can fuck themselves over far better than dumb people can. Smart people can take bullshit stances, then back them up with half-assed logic and heartfelt emotion to create something that looks really genuine. They can, quite literally, argue their way into being right, even when they're utterly wrong. Really smart people can use those communicative skills to bully people. Just because you can say it better doesn't mean that you're right. Just because you have people agreeing with you doesn't mean you're right.
The past is meaningless. I don't care whether your mother beat you bloody every Tuesday night for every week of your childhood; all that matters now is what you do today. Too many people use the past as an excuse to make today's assholism or helplessness okay.
It's harder to learn when you don't have a valid template. I used to think this was bullshit, but then I realized why I was always nervous about being married: I never knew what a married couple looked like. My parents divorced early, and as a result I don't know what married people are supposed to do. I never know when something's good. There are people who grew up in bad families who never saw what it was like to be married, or how to parent, or how to love. This is not an excuse, but it does make them have to start from scratch. I think the trick is to acknowledge that and just to start building.
There is a balance between being right and being invested in right. When people are miserable and near-suicidal, they evidently don't know what they're doing - and chances are good that you do, in fact, have a better idea of what's best for them than they do. But the worst thing you can do is to use that as a club. They may be stupid, and lost, and too arrogant to see that where they are is the result of their own bad decisions... But you have to find a way to put it to them gently.
Empathy, not sympathy.
The average is still a valid baseline. If most people would get upset by what you're doing to a specific person, chances are that either you're either the Messiah or that you're an asshole. I don't like your odds, Jesus.
Everyone has a few bugs in their program - an instinct that's completely wrong. I want to date psychopathic women, who are needy and make me feel good about myself. Gini hates seeing people fight and doesn't ever want to be the one who ends a friendship. Both of us wind up in horrible situations when we follow our instincts. I think a large part to the secret of success is to remember which instincts are wrong, and to go against them. You're outside your comfort zone, which is a bitch... But you get better results.
There is no now. Your life starts here. If you're miserable, you can change that today. You chose to be here, and nobody else. Any other attitude leads to you blaming other people, which makes it their fault, which blinds you to the things you could have genuinely done, which puts you smack in the middle of helplessville. It's all you, buddy. You make your world. And even if it ain't true, you'd better believe that with all your heart.
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![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/6991898/878911) | | From: | e_juliana |
| Date: | August 19th, 2003 11:39 am (UTC) |
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| | I don't know. | (Link) |
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I think that philosophy is pretty fucking coherent.
And damned if I didn't wonder if you were eavesdropping on my life for a bit.
I friended you. Your profile said it'd be okay. Some damn good writing in here....
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/2866866/711176) | | From: | theferrett |
| Date: | August 19th, 2003 06:23 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: I don't know. | (Link) |
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Thank you for the kind words! It's not coherent yet, because I need to find a way to live by it without being cruel. There's a balance that I have yet to get to.
I got a lot of friends today, which was nice. Now I just have to find the time to go spelunking through their journals...
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/84569658/1028683) | | From: | arliss |
| Date: | August 21st, 2003 03:12 pm (UTC) |
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You just garnered another. People who can be articulate about the storm in my head are to be cherished.
You should see the movie Antwone Fisher. I watched it last night, and it hits on a lot of the points you made. It's also very well-made, so much so that my father liked it (and he loathes dramas usually).
i have wanted to see that movie!
on another note, looks like the issues faireraven posted about are going around these days. it matches something i have been mulling over for a couple of days as well.
must be that time of year for philosophical debate or something. *g*
I dunno about Antoine Fisher; it looked really sappy. I generally avoid preachy movies - but if I get the opportunity, I'll see it.
Next up for me: American Splendor and Freddy vs. Jason.
Yeah, the trailer for Antwone Fisher sucked. But trust me, it's one of the best, most moving movies I've ever seen. I really want to see American Splendor too, but no theatres in Atlanta are playing it. Arrgh.
Okay. Point taken. Saving this to read over and over again. Not so egocentric as to think this involves what's in my journal, but...it came up at a pretty convenient time. Thanks.
You're part of it, sweetie, though a lot's been inspired by local issues as well.
Like I said, love, apologizing is never enough. That's probably the biggest lesson to be learned. And I know; I've been there more than you can ever know. Sometimes, watching you is like reading the journal I never had at your age, except for less sex and more parental discord.
Just found my way here via shawnj, and am saving this into my memories. :)
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/2866866/711176) | | From: | theferrett |
| Date: | August 20th, 2003 08:52 am (UTC) |
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| | And I MEANT To Reply... | (Link) |
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That was the nicest compliment I've heard all day yesterday! Thank you.
| From: | coryphella |
| Date: | August 20th, 2003 08:59 am (UTC) |
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| | Re: And I MEANT To Reply... | (Link) |
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Hee! :) No problem. I try to be nice, sometimes.
The past is meaningless. I don't care whether your mother beat you bloody every Tuesday night for every week of your childhood; all that matters now is what you do today.
Too many people use the past as an excuse to make today's assholism or helplessness okay.
When I read this part, I was already to make a response that would have ended up looking very much like this...
It's harder to learn when you don't have a valid template. I used to think this was bullshit, but then I realized why I was always nervous about being married: I never knew what a married couple looked like. My parents divorced early, and as a result I don't know what married people are supposed to do. I never know when something's good.
There are people who grew up in bad families who never saw what it was like to be married, or how to parent, or how to love. This is not an excuse, but it does make them have to start from scratch.
I think the trick is to acknowledge that and just to start building.
... but you beat me to it.
(No pun intended.)
I had one of those "ABC TV movie of the week" childhoods. My first relationship was very similar. The next one was exactly the same -- from the outside. But internally there were differences, because I had learned things from Disasterous Choice Number One, I just hadn't figured out how to implement them yet.
I'm in a great place right now. But it took a long time and a lot of mistakes to get here.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/2866866/711176) | | From: | theferrett |
| Date: | August 19th, 2003 06:38 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: back to the future | (Link) |
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I would have had that huge gap until my birthday. It was a surprising revelation that all the people who whined because they never knew what their dad was growing up had a point.
It just goes to show that I can always be wrong, and frequently am.
You should learn Yoda's fucked up sentence structure and write Yoda's lines in the Episode III script. Sure, more than half the actual filming is done already, but you might just save a sack of horseshit from hitting the big screen...
not passive voice - the main thing is he moves the predicate to the beginning of the sentence.
yes, that is true, but he also uses a passive voice sentence structure.
i think the thread that runs through all these individual truths and makes them cohere is "accountability."
it's great that you admit to being drawn to psychopathic women. it makes it that much more meaningful that you challenge yourself in a relationship with the opposite of the needy psycho-girl (your wife is clearly awesome).
the last and hardest mile for me has been learning to be accountable for my own self-image & depending less on validation from others. (i used to be a psycho-magnet, too)
the only part i'd argue with is this: "The average is still a valid baseline." if you turn your friend away for his own good because he is a parasite, like you discuss at the beginning of your treatise, the majority of people may find you "heartless." or maybe i just have a strong antipathy for the "average" person (although i think by "average" you mean "moderate").
No, I mean average. The problem is deciding when it's necessary to be an asshole, which is always troubling.
Don't tell me you go for psychoguys, too. We're made for each other, in all the wrong goddamn ways.
My wife is, clearly, awesome. Now I just wish I could get over the feeling that I don't deserve her...
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/25365491/681733) | | From: | queenseye |
| Date: | August 19th, 2003 09:38 pm (UTC) |
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| | i'm just your average asshole... | (Link) |
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i got over psychos. they are not only needy, but tend to blow smoke up the ass, which i don't need. (it's like getting a "A" without studying, so why go for an A+?) so much better to have an equal who inspires me to pull my own weight in the relationship...
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/8321960/1236305) | | From: | zigurat |
| Date: | August 19th, 2003 02:48 pm (UTC) |
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What you say about smart people--so true. Watch yourself, man. ;-) Of course, as long as they're intellectually honest, I don't mind people being wrong. But I've met very few people I've considered rigorously honest in this capacity.
I don't quite get your comment about Jesus. Of course, as you know, I believe in Him.
As to your last comment, Rent is, well, only one of two musicals I've seen (the other Les Mis). I should see more. I've worn out two sets of the CD soundtrack. I quite recommend it if you have not seen it.
I can be quite the enigma. Nobody would know it, but it seems that in many ways I am quite the bohemian at heart.
Actually, the smart thing was learned from my relationship with Bari. I pounded the poor woman with the weight of my eloquence, and completely smothered her feelings with logic.
Won't do THAT again. I hope.
I've never seen Rent, so if I made some reference to it, I'll never know. People have recommended it.
I remain quite curious as to what you're really like. You are a fascinatin' person.
My wife and I never argue. We never argue because I never win. Why argue when I'm wrong? So, I don't tell her when things bother me...
I'm a very intelligent person. I have an extremely high IQ. I am not particularly clever. I need time to make decisions. I need time to consider all angles and find the most elegant solution. I do very, very well at taking tests. This doesn't help me much in an argument, "Okay, good point. I'll have my rebuttal worked out in about three minutes." Ten seconds later, "Another very good point. I'll have my rebuttal worked out in about three minutes." Fifteen seconds later, "You know, you're right. I can't dispute what you're saying." It really doesn't matter what I think. If I can't pull together a coherent thought very quickly, how can I possibly win an argument?
My feelings have been smothered by logic and eloquence. Now, how to explain this to my wife...
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/2866866/711176) | | From: | theferrett |
| Date: | August 20th, 2003 06:38 am (UTC) |
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| | Re: This is it! | (Link) |
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Hint: Write everything down. Have no arguments in person, because you're handicapped. And be prepared for a lot of anger from your wife, who's won everything up until now.
Arrogant people hate losing.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/8321960/1236305) | | From: | zigurat |
| Date: | August 20th, 2003 07:57 am (UTC) |
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| | Re: This is it! | (Link) |
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I know how it feels to never win. Sometimes I feel like that, but it's because I'm so often wrong.
I'm very familiar with the trouble with the come-back. I can't think straight when I'm emotionally aroused. I also have a problem where I can't ever remember any examples of what she always does that's wrong when I want to use it in an argument, and she always asks for examples.
When I'm right, I'm right, whether she'll accept it or not. We have a decreasing need to argue because we can just talk and accept more and more.
We fight when I don't hold up my end, and when I expect her to do humanly impossible feats, or learn lessons and act in a way which goes against her very being. In other words, things that generally should not happen.
I have one piece of advice, that I'd give to every husband because it comes straight from the Bible. Don't try to be right. Try to lead. Take responsibility for leading the relationship in a positive direction, and she will appreciate it. It may take a little while to get used to on both ends, but it works. Even if she's always right and wins all the fights, you can still lead by your actions, the way you treat her, everything. Actions speak louder than words.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/63040247/613186) | | From: | shiftercat |
| Date: | August 21st, 2003 12:12 am (UTC) |
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| | Re: This is it! | (Link) |
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"I also have a problem where I can't ever remember any examples of what she always does that's wrong when I want to use it in an argument, and she always asks for examples."
Ermmmm... this could be a warning sign. It depends on how she asks.
If she's saying, "I'm not sure what you mean when you say I'm being X. Could you give me an example so that I know what it is you have a problem with?", this is okay. It's a request for clearer communication.
If she's saying, "What do you mean I'm being X? When was the last time I was doing X? Give me a specific example!", this is not okay -- it's a lead-in to a head game. She wants to distract you from the issue at hand and get you arguing about past incidents. If that's what it is, you may be dealing with an emotional manipulator.
I knew someone who pulled this stunt all the time: he'd try to get you to name specific incidents, and if you couldn't, then he'd act like you had no case; if you could, then he'd spend time justifying past behaviour, and again act like you had no case.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/8321960/1236305) | | From: | zigurat |
| Date: | August 22nd, 2003 08:22 am (UTC) |
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| | Re: This is it! | (Link) |
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Fortunately it's nothing like that. She's generally justified in asking for an example. Often, if there is one, it's a situation where once again, I had some initial failing. Sure, like everybody, she's got some issues about which she's just not going to change even if she perhaps should. They are not a big deal. Everybody has their hangups which need to be accomodated.
It's usually a result of my behavior, thus my comment that I'm the one so often wrong.
And, no, I'm not a loser with no self-esteem either. She lets me wear the pants, so to speak. She even irons them for me if I let her. It's when I'm not doing my part to lead, and being arrogant, that the problems occur, and I end up blaming my wife for things that are not her fault. Typical male behavior. Fortunately, I've gotten much better over the years at being the leader, despite setbacks. I obviously rely heavily on my wife for everything practical, though, and she does a remarkably fabulous job of managing everything, including me.
Of course, like I said, she's not beyond occasionally denying that she's done anything wrong, or could do anything differently that would help a situation. But these are small beans. I've sailed on De Nile more than she ever has.
Even serious emotional manipulators are often pulling their stunts in response to certain failings in others. We're all human, but we should just all grow up, eventually. It always takes both. And even if a person is a victim of emotional manipulation, they can change how they respond, picking up their part and sometimes more, and can sometimes very effectively help the manipulator realize and overcome their problems in this way.
I usually find that men in particular don't realize what they're doing wrong, or not doing right, in a relationship, that would provide the basis for improving a relationship. As you can tell, I expect men to be the leaders and to take more responsibility for the problems.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/8321960/1236305) | | From: | zigurat |
| Date: | August 20th, 2003 07:44 am (UTC) |
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Well, I return the compliment. I've always respected a razor sharp wit and complete honesty. Of course, that doesn't make you right about everything, so still watch yourself. [g]
I've considered you and Gini friends since echo, short though my stint there was, and often wondered how you were doing. I'm glad to know and to speak with you again.
You've written enough that I think you are what you seem, and are fairly transparent by intent. I think I tend to be obscure even when I try to be transparent. Even when I really really mean what I say (most of the time unless I'm being an ass), I think people don't get how this could be. I mean, when I'm being honest, I can say some pretty strange things. Like the paradoxical belief in predestination and free will. But I've learned that many of my ideas are really not so strange and that others (people I consider clear thinkers) do in fact hold them, if real communication can be achieved. When I'm being wise, I simply hold my tongue and do what I'm told. When I'm being a wise-ass, I can sometimes achieve humor. Sometimes intended, sometimes not. So few people really know me. Or is that all there is to me? ;-)
See Rent. Or, for goodness sake, get the soundtrack. You'd like it. What you said really rings through in that musical, and you can follow the story pretty well on the soundtrack, esp. if you also read a plot-line. The performance is incredible.
I was referred here by shawnj, and made it my first addition to "Memories". It's smart, wise, and concise. I've learned most of those already, the hard way, but it's still really nice to see them put so succinctly.
That's the nicest compliment I've heard all day! Thank you.
| From: | (Anonymous) |
| Date: | August 19th, 2003 06:16 pm (UTC) |
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Someone is channelling Lazarus Long.
One of my favorite quotes:
"Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again." --Lazarus Long
Get out of my head!
Are you sure you're not in a 12 step program? A good chunk of that stuff sounds like the other 11 steps, O furry one.
There's an enormous amount of merit to what you say.
I just realized that there's not a lot I have to say and will just shut up now.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/2866866/711176) | | From: | theferrett |
| Date: | August 20th, 2003 06:39 am (UTC) |
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| | Re: No fair... | (Link) |
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That's okay. You broke the database in my wife's journal, so it all balances out.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/17526653/473047) | | From: | usmu |
| Date: | August 20th, 2003 06:44 am (UTC) |
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Though I can agree with a lot of this, specially you can only make yourself happy and if you're not you better do something about it, there are a couple of things I'd like to mention. As usual.
I've always found it rather presumptuous to decide what's best for other people. They need to find their own way. If I offer any advice at all, it's always with the acknowledgment that it is what I would do.
Like you said, people need to be ready to change, otherwise the situation will continue, no matter what you say or do. I've seen this happen with my brother, it took him years to come where he's now. Helping somebody out is something different from enabling somebody to keep behaving in a certain way. And sometimes keeping somebody from going completely over the edge enabling someone is the only thing we can do. Until that person is ready to make the change.
One of the things that need to be done is dealing with the past. Though indeed not an excuse for continuing bad behavior, it is the reason why this bad behavior exists. It's the template they have build themselves and they need to start building a new one. Saying the past doesn't matter in the respect that they can do that seems productive to me, saying it doesn't matter period does not. People usually have made decisions to their best ability. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. That needs to be acknowledged. Otherwise you end up clubbing them regardless.
By the time most people find what you are doing objectionable, you've probably been an asshole for way too long already. If I'd gotten a nickle for every time I've heard most people say: "relax, it's not that bad" I'd be a rich man. Unfortunately.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/89628881/6490) | | From: | nuala |
| Date: | August 20th, 2003 07:20 am (UTC) |
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Most of these I've learned the hard way, ex: reinforcing negative behavior with too much kindness was a very bad thing. But the valid template theory hadn't occurred to me yet. It certainly explains quite a bit re: my wedding anxieties. But I think this theory could apply to many things, not just marriage. The past isn't meaningless, you just need to learn from it, accept it, and then move on. Using it as an excuse for current behavior is wrong, I agree. But I think that it's necessary for learning and growing. For creating a good valid template for your own children.
When my mother killed herself when I was twelve I said to myslef. "You didn't need her anyway. You'll be better off without her." And it was the past.
And I had a highly successful if stilted high school life. Best period of my life till I married.
But at a point the weight of the situation broke through and I was really broken up over all the angles for quite some time. My relationships were based on the idea of just how much shit the girl would take so inevitably they were filled with torturous excursions out onto and beyond the edge with me playing the asshole for all it was worth.
Cuz Mom should have put up with more. She should have stayed in this life to see what her kids would be like. She should have been with me.
And then she made the exit valid.
At the end, as far as I can say from my experience is that self actualization, the awakening is necessary and it can rarely be done alone - although the hermitage is a lesson itself. What I've found is that its tiring, and that the process is tiring and takes up its own amount of time. At a point for me a couple of sentences "worked". I did my homework. I excelled at sports. I was happy...and yet this bootstrap approach eventually broke and I inherited a lifelong workthrough.
So I'm not so sure about your ideas that one can just break out on the moment a brand new frame of mind and sail off into a glorious sunset. Not sure at all. We see those stories all the times about "fat" folks who drop 100's of pounds. Smokers who quit cold turkey. but for every one of them there are thousands who continue to struggle with the same things and the examples I gave are really for simple problems.
Will
It's harder to learn when you don't have a valid template... [snip] This is not an excuse, but it does make them have to start from scratch.
I think the trick is to acknowledge that and just to start building. Very true. Parents of blind children are handed the startling statistic that ~80% of learning about how the world works and how to function in the 1st year of life comes from visual observation (and therefore we must teach them all those things purposefully because they can't pick it up by osmosis.) Those who have never seen something have to learn of it from other sources- this most definitely goes for healthy human relations and is probably why school teachers have to spend so much time teaching how to be friends and the like. I have friends who hang around ursusmarkos and I specifically to see what a stable marriage is like, sometimes, as we are both so weird we should be on a talk show: not only are we just past our 10th anniversary, each of our sets of parents are still married, and *their* marriages exceed 30 years.
I've always tried to plot the best course to fight for in life; and hell, this'll help me out a lot.
I'm going to friend you, I hope that's alright.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/6697518/14765) | | From: | pjammer |
| Date: | September 25th, 2003 11:18 am (UTC) |
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I like! Reminiscient of Avatar Therapy I wrote a few months back. Great quiz meme, btw - it worked! I am adding you. I don't update as frequently as you do, but I'd like to think my posts are worth being added to a default-view friends-list of a fellow sardonic LJ essayist. :)
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/6175472/1142249) | | From: | zeostaryu |
| Date: | September 25th, 2003 01:45 pm (UTC) |
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| | And that's that | (Link) |
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I hope you don't mind, but I linked your journal and added you as a friend.
Anyone who can powerfully sum up what I've been thinking for the last 5 years AND put it in words far better than I ever could DESERVES to be linked and friended.
Its interesting to see that spelt out. I can relate to the situation through a friend who appears to me to be in a cycle of negative behaviour. When she asks my advice I give it, but I'm also feeling like shaking her and saying 'can't you see what you're doing? You're a great person, why can't you see that?' I can only repeat myself so many times. But I wish there was a way to help her. But I know this is one she has to do herself. Not easy to stand by and watch.
| From: | denizenz |
| Date: | December 12th, 2004 11:11 am (UTC) |
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Hello. Just browsing through another's journal and came across this post. I know it is an old post but I would like to ask whether I can link your post to my community because I think it is bloody brilliant. |
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