The Watchtower of Destruction: The Ferrett's Journal - Thoughts From A PBS Catalogue
October 17th, 2002
03:44 pm

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Thoughts From A PBS Catalogue

(100 shouts of denial | Tell me I'm full of it)

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From:theferrett
Date:June 5th, 2008 07:56 pm (UTC)
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It has to do with me not respecting your CONDEMNATION OF OTHERS WHO MAKE THE SAME CHOICE.

What fucking condemnation?

You know, I'll talk to you when you're on the same planet as I am. Because at no point did I say that anyone made me sick because they didn't feel the same way that I did, or that they were a "disgrace to the pro-choice community." This is a personal essay about something that happened to me, and how I felt about it, and at no point within the essay do I make any sort of global statement about abortion.

Frankly, you make me sick by trying to twist that into something else to further your political agenda. And yeah, the fact that you do that? It is a disgrace.

And then, when someone takes this essay and starts posting it in pro-life communities as "proof" that abortion is bad and nobody should ever do it and I clarify my stance to them in order to say that not all, but MANY people are sickened by people who treat abortion casually, and most don't. And that is true.

Frankly, you wanna bring your baggage here, go right ahead, but I'm not going to go, "Oh, wow. You're right. That thing you made up that I said? Wow, I'm wrong."

So to hell with you and your judgments that somehow, I'm pro- or anti-anything. I've had more than a few friends have abortions, and I have discussed this essay with people who've worked down at the clinics.... But I doubt that matters to you. What you want is to be right. I suppose what I should say is the norm to make you happy is to agree with you and say 99% of women who have an abortion think nothing of it, and they get it done, and it's as casual and easy for them as throwing away a hamburger at McDonald's.

If you believe that? Go right ahead. You'll find evidence.

In the meantime, you can screw yourself because I never said anything about other people having abortions - and I dare you to find one instance in the stories shared here where I said, "Wow, you sick fucker, how dare you kill that child? After all, abortion is wrong!"

I didn't. And would not. It's a personal matter, and though I might not agree with every abortion I'm not going to tell anyone they're evil for doing it.

I will further do you the courtesy of assuming that if you really DID think you were murdering a child you would not have done it no matter what.

Was I murdering a full child? No. It wasn't the same as smashing a baby on the rocks. Was it snuffing out what I believe to be a human life, something with the potential to be my child? Yeah. It was. And I helped with the decision to do it, and I arranged the finance, and I agreed with it being done.

It was the right decision for us in the end. But it came with a cost, and that cost was the child. And that cost is exactly the thing that concerns me. Again, I get the distinct feeling that I'm supposed to crumple now under your logic and say, "Oh, gosh! You're right! It wasn't a child! I didn't feel that way at all!"....

....But no. I do think it was murder, and a sad one, and a small one, and perhaps one that shouldn't have been done at all. And the best I can do is to look that fact in the eye, unpleasant though it may be.

We looked at all the other options. In the end, we chose the one that we thought was best for all concerned, including a child that we judged wouldn't be happy. That decision was, sadly, final. If our goal was to pump out a life no matter what, then no, I suppose, we made the wrong decision, but our goal wasn't to preserve life at all costs, but rather to make the decision that would lead to the best quality of life.

You don't always get to know what the right decision would have been. As it is? I can live with it.

You are, however, correct on one thing:

Abortion doesn't cause that. UNPLANNED PREGNANCY does, regardless of how it ends.

I'd agree with that. But strangely enough, I wasn't talking to people who made that distinction when they were cutting and copying my words for an agenda I didn't agree with.
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From:eyelid
Date:June 5th, 2008 08:29 pm (UTC)
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Was I murdering a full child? No.
Really? Cause your bio says this is "The day I killed the only child I ever had." So, which is it? Whatever's convenient?


Because at no point did I say that anyone made me sick because they didn't feel the same way that I did, or that they were a "disgrace to the pro-choice community."
Really. Because here's what you said BEFORE:
but you folks should know that pro-choicers who treat it cavalierly, as if it's just a piece of bacon that's being removed, make a lot of the rest of us sick.

I guess by "the rest of us" you meant, uh, not yourself? What a fascinating use of the English language. "Us" meaning "not including me."


I do think it was murder, and a sad one, and a small one, and perhaps one that shouldn't have been done at all.
You know, this kind of profession is very strange to me. Because I just don't find anything "small" about murder.


If our goal was to pump out a life no matter what, then no, I suppose, we made the wrong decision, but our goal wasn't to preserve life at all costs, but rather to make the decision that would lead to the best quality of life.
Again, you are deliberately avoiding the point. This isn't about whether your choice was right. Again, I just don't make those kinds of judgments. Frankly I'm sure I would have made the same choice in your position. But what this is about is your hypocrisy. You said:
Every other option should be taken before you go that final step. Every option.

...that's the standard you say people should adhere to. any deviation from that "makes the rest of us sick." Yet you didn't adhere to it, did you? No. You didn't "take another option" though now you admit you had some.


Frankly, you wanna bring your baggage here, go right ahead,
lol. MY baggage?


had more than a few friends have abortions, and I have discussed this essay with people who've worked down at the clinics....
Definitely this is a statistical sample.

You know, I wonder if it ever occurred to you that your attitude might tailor the stories you get? If a friend had an abortion and found it to be a positive experience, would they feel safe telling you, given that you've implied that people who don't suffer after an abortion make you sick? _I_ wouldn't tell you, if I cared what you thought about me.


Frankly, you make me sick by trying to twist that into something else to further your political agenda.
yeah, that must be my motive, because arguing with you on your LJ is totally doing tons to further my political agenda. *rolls eyes*
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From:theferrett
Date:June 5th, 2008 08:38 pm (UTC)
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but you folks should know that pro-choicers who treat it cavalierly, as if it's just a piece of bacon that's being removed, make a lot of the rest of us sick.

Hence the phrase "a lot." Is that everyone?

Do you actually read what's there, or do you just randomly toss out the parts you don't like?

You didn't "take another option" though now you admit you had some.

I did look at those options. They weren't good enough, so I didn't take them. I'm sorry, I wasn't aware I was dealing with the sort of asshole pedant where I'd have to say, "No, I'm sorry. I didn't think about selling the baby off to slavers, which would solve our financial problems" to make it clear that the options have to be valid ones that actually work for you.

If I have to draw a distinction between "good" and "bad" options that serve the needs of the man and woman and potential child, then frankly you're either a) too dim to grok any sort of meaningful distinction, or b) just looking to bitch a lot and feel superior.

It could be a). That's a, you know, option. But then we move on to this:

Definitely this is a statistical sample.

Just as yours is. OMG, YOU'VE RUN THIS COMMUNITY FOR FIVE YEARS! How statistical. How awesome.

And clearly, your own attitude wouldn't encourage a variety of stories, either. The good news is that your sample is superior to mine! You win, because you want to be right. You don't cite surveys, you don't cite studies... No, when backed into a corner, you immediately start dissecting my experiences, without ever considering that everything you have said to me is subject to the same conditions.

Are you any better? Oh, I suppose we could get into a dickwar and compare pure numbers, but... Every community and person self-selects the experiences it finds. Including you. And yeah, I'm sure you're non-judgmental - I'm seeing that utter lack of judgment right now.

But it doesn't matter. As I suspected earlier, you want to be right. You don't want to debate, you just want to prove points. Go for you.

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From:eyelid
Date:June 5th, 2008 09:14 pm (UTC)
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Hence the phrase "a lot." Is that everyone?
oh, I see. So really, what you meant to say there is "other people find it sick when pro-choicers believe that a fetus is just a piece of bacon..... but uh, not me, I'm down with that viewpoint"? You are actually trying to say that you weren't incorporating yourself into that condemnation?

Instead of Ferrett you should call yourself Weasel. Do you seriously believe your own bullshit?


I'm sorry, I wasn't aware I was dealing with the sort of asshole pedant where I'd have to say, "No, I'm sorry. I didn't think about selling the baby off to slavers,

Y halo thar strawman! That was totally your only other option, right?


Just as yours is. OMG, YOU'VE RUN THIS COMMUNITY FOR FIVE YEARS! How statistical. How awesome.
Uh, yeah, I think that five years worth of experience is a pretty good sample. Better than you talking to a few buddies, for sure. But you are right that it is pretty awesome :)


And clearly, your own attitude wouldn't encourage a variety of stories, either.
lol. My own attitude has encouraged every kind of story there is. abortioninfo is an entirely safe space. Don't believe me? Go look at it. The stories are archived. I've got nothing to hide, because I'm right. Also, I run afterabortion, BTW. Another safe-space community. No judgments, no pressure, no expectations, only support.


You don't cite surveys, you don't cite studies...
I don't really need to cite anything other than my own experience, since your statement was that everyone feels a certain way after an abortion, and I didn't. This automatically shows that your statement is wrong.

Furthermore, you can easily look at the communities yourself. As for studies, why is it that I'm required to produce studies to refute YOUR unsupported claims? however, studies are readily available from the Guttmacher institute (see, e.g., here.)


As I suspected earlier, you want to be right.
lol. totally unlike you!

look, it's obvious that you're unable to admit to your own words. You're so just loving that moral high horse and your own martyrdom. Crawl off the cross, my friend, someone needs the wood.

You may now have the last word :)
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From:rustedxemotions
Date:May 23rd, 2014 04:09 pm (UTC)
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I find it so awesome that The Ferrett didn't feel the need to have the last word. It was probably decent enough letting you go out as an absolute ass with absolutely no further point to prove because you seriously refuted his comment "As I suspected earlier, you want to be right."

Eyelid, you're an asshole confused for a feminist.
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