The Watchtower of Destruction: The Ferrett's Journal - Do-Be-Do-Me-Do
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11:49 am
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Do-Be-Do-Me-Do
Women have a habit of asking you how women look. They seem to be eternally fascinated by not only how you view their beauty, but what you think of other women as well. I can't recall a single time when a guy has asked me, "So what do you think of Phil?" and meant "Is Phil cute to you?" but I get that a lot from women — even women who I'm not dating.
My answer used to be very binary: "I'd do her." Or, sometimes, "I'd do ya."
Or, alternatively, "She's not my type."
Women were shocked by this, giggling in disbelief as if I'd said something terribly naughty. (And if they had asked how they looked, sometimes they'd get very uncomfortable and guarded, as if I was going to leap on them and ravish them at any moment.)
This strange shyness always confused me; after all, wasn't that the whole reason you dressed up? The idea was to make yourself sexy and alluring, and to me I was just answering the only question that could truly tell you whether you'd succeeded: yes, you have made yourself so attractive that I'd like to bang you. Thanks for asking!
But a lot of the females I knew had this weird disconnect; they wanted men to flirt with them, but they wanted men to remain in some strange, cartoon-like asexual zone until they were ready to have sex. The men were supposed to be turned on, but only in a clinical fashion that was absolutely separate from their genitalia. The idea that an unauthorized male might be sporting an erection over their jiggling breasts was creepy to them, even if they'd gone to great lengths to make the tops of those breasts easily visible. In fact, I knew several women who dressed like hookers who got really upset when someone they didn't know told them they had a nice ass.
"You put the ass out there," I'd say. "You wrapped it so tightly in leather that it looks like a black version of your naked butt. Considering you went to such lengths to display the ass, why are you upset when someone notices it?"
They usually didn't take too well to that.
I viewed it as a control issue, and a slightly selfish one at that. Yes, I understand the whole "take back the night" issue, and I support the death penalty for serial rapists. But these guys aren't rapists; they're enthusiasts. You dressed to provoke a certain reaction, and you got that reaction — just not from the guy you were hoping to attract. And yeah, I'm sorry that the guy was enough of a lout to think that waxing rhapsodic over your boobs was sweet talk that would inevitably lead to the boudoir, and I can even get that it's tiresome fending off the aroused masses… but the idea that he was wrong for approaching you is just stupid.
You went trolling for men. You caught some. Yeah, you have to throw some back, but don't blame the men for that. What, the ugly and incompetent guys aren't supposed to try?
(Not all women were like that, of course. A lot of girls chirped, "Thanks!" and moved on whenever someone ogled them, and they were usually the ones I hung out with at the end of the evening.)
It's a weird game these women played. They wanted to dress up in fuck-me outfits and find men slick enough to lie to them. They'd find a guy who'd invest a few hours pretending that his main goal for the evening wasn't to dip the shaft… and if he feigned disinterest well enough, he'd be rewarded with an enthusiastic shaft-dipping.
And then these women would bitch that their boyfriends all cheated on them, and they were clearly stupid to expect anything else —they had gone out of their way to be attracted to men who had lied to them from the start. What the fuck did you think would happen?
Not all sexual interest is overwhelming. I can say, "Man, I'd like to fuck you silly" and not have it be so all-consuming that I can't enjoy an afternoon by the park with you. I mean, I'd like an ice cream cone, too, but it doesn't mean that it's all I think about. We can be friends, and I can respect the fact that you don't find me attractive, or that you do but we're both committed right now.
But occasionally, if I find you attractive, there's a part of me that wants to make it with you when I look at you from the right angle and remember what a babe you are. Everybody fucking thinks that sometimes. And then it goes away.
I'd do ya. Doesn't mean anything more than that.
Now let's go catch a movie.
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Amen, brother. Well-said.
We should all print out copies of this to hand out at "those times."
You went trolling for men. You caught some. Yeah, you have to throw some back, but don't blame the men for that. What, the ugly and incompetent guys aren't supposed to try?
How very true.
This doesn't mean that sometimes one attracts a mob of guys so ugly and incompetent that one digs in the back of one's dresser for the baggy jeans and sweatshirts that add 40 pounds and subtract all traces of femininity, tosses out the makeup, and hides from all men everywhere.
I'm about at that point right now.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/79330272/1238604) | | From: | teriel |
| Date: | June 28th, 2005 03:55 pm (UTC) |
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Good to hear a man tell as it is. I figure if I like a woman and tell her that I should be acknolwedged for my boldness, my willingness to take a risk. Even if that acknolwedgement is just a thanks.
It all depends on what you say and how you say it.
Good: Dressed appropriate for the club, close enough to be heard but still far enough to be outside the comfort zone. Polite and slightly hopeful smile. "I like your outfit." Bad: Dressed kinda skeezy or not appropriately for the club (gangster in a goth club. Standing close enough to be too intimate for a stranger. Leering. "Baby, that dress looks hot on you. It'd look better on my floor." Creepy: Dressed poorly. Dirty, smelly, ratty clothing. Standing so close he's almost touching, or worse actually touching. Leering through bad teeth and dragon breath. "Hey sugar, wanna get it on, get it on, get it oooon wi't da' dawg?"
The Onion had an rticle titled "Woman Tired of Men Staring at her Fake Breasts"
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/40019876/717749) | | From: | shawnj |
| Date: | June 28th, 2005 03:58 pm (UTC) |
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I can say, "Man, I'd like to fuck you silly" and not have it be so all-consuming that I can't enjoy an afternoon by the park with you. I mean, I'd like an ice cream cone, too, but it doesn't mean that it's all I think about. We can be friends, and I can respect the fact that you don't find me attractive, or that you do but we're both committed right now.
Wouldn't be great if the all but inevitable sexual tension in intergender friendships ended (or heated up) so frankly? Would save a lot of people from stress and worry.
I think a lot of it comes from the denial. Most of the fucked-up relationships have come from one of two things:
1) One (or both) friends desperately wanting the other, but not wanting the other person to know for weird reasons, or:
2) The idea that sexual attraction is transitive. I have friends who aren't attracted to me. They should be, dammit, but I can respect that they don't have to be.
This is bitching about #1. I probably should write about #2 at some point.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/16671542/864959) | | From: | spiral5 |
| Date: | June 28th, 2005 03:58 pm (UTC) |
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Brilliant and dead on. Mind if I link to this in my own journal?
Personally, I find it refreshing when people are upfront about their sexual interest. I think it show both maturity and courage. There is a social pressure to lie about the fact that sex is interesting. There is nothing like being interested in someone "that" way and getting the impression you are supposed to deny it. Don't. As soon as I discover a sexual interest, I try to be straight about it. While it often garners rejection, it does clarify the matter at hand. The people I want to get to know better respond well to direct interest. They understand that it a compliment (and perhaps the most sincere complement out there). Someone who puts up sexual cues and then isn't graceful about it has told you pretty much everything you need to know about them. I have met many of them in my time. The best response is to apologize and walk away as fast as your feet can carry you. It will only get worse from there.
Personally, I find it refreshing when people are upfront about their sexual interest. I think it show both maturity and courage.
And personally, I find it refreshing to read someone saying that!!! Thank you.
For some reason, LJ won't let me access your LJ at the moment. But I'll go back tomorrow, and try again. :-)
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/31038789/3963959) | | From: | didi75 |
| Date: | June 28th, 2005 04:03 pm (UTC) |
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So true. If you're going to flaunt it, expect some attention. I have a friend who dances all freaky in clubs and then gets surprised when guys try to dance up on her. She's doing all of these sexy moves like she's some stripper and doesn't expect horny ass guys to notice, and act on their desires? I don't think it's right (I mean for guys to force themselves on dancing girls), but at the same time I'm very conscious of the way I dance in a club. I don't want some greasy git touching me from behind.
Anyway, playing dress up is good fun and I can't say I don't enjoy the attention. When I make an effort, somebody better fucking notice. I'd be upset if they didn't. But that doesn't mean I'd want to do ya/them.
Man, I hate that. You're doing the butt dance and don't expect me to react? The guys shouldn't touch her, but she shouldn't be surprised at the attention.
hehe "i'd do ya" or "hell, i'd do her/him" is my husbands rating system for hot people everywhere... it doesn't mean i should concern myself with him not being able to control himself (or that he's planning on leaving me for heath ledger)... he's just saying that with that look, if the situation was right & presented itself, he wouldn't say no based on my/your/their look.
I even have some straight female friends who will tell me the women they'd do. And of course they tell me the men too.
It's a fun exchange between us though.
The straight women point out women to me, and I, the lesbian, point out men to them. It's rather amusing sometimes.
I don't mind guys looking when I'm dressed up. I don't mind them approaching to talk or dance. It's when they persist after I've told them I'm not interested or worse when they try to touch without invitation. That's when the Boot Stomping is required.
trust me, it goes both ways - women sometimes don't know when to back off either. I once had a woman literally stalk me, showing up at my work as many as 5 times a day (it was a convenience store) and resturants that she knew I frequented.
I was also actually accused of "gay-bashing" because I didn't want to dance with a guy at a club and after repeatedly telling him that I simply wasn't into guys, no offense meant. His other friends escorted him out after he started yelling at me and they apologized for his "jack-ass behavior".
This was a very entertaining post. Most of your entries give me pause, and I ponder them and think, "how perceptive of him.." In general I don't comment, because frankly you don't really need one more person telling you how brilliant, witty and wonderful you are. ;) This entry though, made me full out laugh! It was wonderful!
However, from a woman's point of view, I'll tell you what I thought of your observation. I was one of those girls who got glammed up, all the time, and never had sex. Didn't until I got married. (My opinions have changed drastically since then, but that's another story entirely) However just because I never intended on letting any man "bang me" didn't mean I didn't WANT HIM TO WANT TO.
You want them to be so uncomfortable they're straining in their pants. Drolling down their chin, shaking at the knees. Giving you that look that says, "You're horribly cruel to taunt me like this"
You just don't want to have to deal with saying no. That's why you want them to shut the hell up and not say anything. Knowing you have the effect on them is the desired result. Having them tell you they want to bang you is just annoying.
At least, that's how it was for me. And just about every other girl I knew.
I so want to say, "Bitch". But then again it's just power games, it's people learning what they have. Some people, as you apparently have (from glancing at your journal), grow out of it, some don't.
Heck, even my wife dresses up when she's feeling down because it gives her power, or to quote, "I like my man-crushing boots".
That is exactly my boyfriend and our friend's rating systems, and has been since before I dated him (he was a friend first). If one of our friends looks hot, the guys will say "I'd do ya". It does oddly make me feel good to know that hey... right now you're thinking of me, naked.
Kind of weird. But kind of cool.
A lot of this stems for the different expectations on intergender relations we instill into our kids when they hit puberty. Boys get a lot of "Go get 'em, you horny bastard!", where as the girls get "ALL the guys will be after your pants, but the ones you really want are the ones who are into YOU". And then we spend the rest of our lives working through this crap. Having both a boy and a girl in the house, I will have to try VERY hard to give them both an equally healthy approach. As soon as I figure out what that is.
if you figure that out, you should write a book and clue the rest of the world in on it. ;)
Funny, we ( lord_keeper and I) were having that discussion the other day. (I just read this to him and he cheered!) And his rant came up of women who dress to advertise who only want the studs to look, and get offended when the "fat ugly fuck" as he put it (obviously not so to mine own eyes!) notices and even looks and gives an appreciative nod. The female reaction gets worse as men get older, too as "old" gets added in to the above descriptive. The ones that aggravate him the worse are the ones you don't even have to say anything to, but they get dress provocatively but still get offended by mere looks from "us old farts". He maintains, and I agree, "If you're going to put it out there on display, people are going to look, even us fat, ugly, old farts." And to him that's the difference between men and women is that when men dress up, they appreciate the attention, even if it comes from fat, ugly old women, just knowing that that he is appreciated.
Women appreciate the attention, too. Or they should, if they're going to dress scantily. Or even nicely, for that matter.
However if you notice a man, give an "appreciative nod", he thinks it means you want to "bang him". Usually.
I always get shy and flattered about guys pay attention to me. Of course, the time a 50 year old man on the street started hitting on me and wouldn't let me go freaked me out though. But if a guy said he'd do me, I'd say thank you, in fact I have done that on seperate occasions.
Actually, based on the photos, I would.
Just sayin'. And you shouldn't be embarrassed.
You should have shoved that old guy in front of a bus, however.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/76150676/79101) | | | Speaking as who fell for it before. | (Link) |
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It's a weird game these women played. They wanted to dress up in fuck-me outfits and find men slick enough to lie to them. They'd find a guy who'd invest a few hours pretending that his main goal for the evening wasn't to dip the shaft… and if he feigned disinterest well enough, he'd be rewarded with an enthusiastic shaft-dipping.
And then these women would bitch that their boyfriends all cheated on them, and they were clearly stupid to expect anything else —they had gone out of their way to be attracted to men who had lied to them from the start. What the fuck did you think would happen?
*** Ok, first of all-- you're dead to rights that they shouldn't be surprised to get frank and honest attention of a sexual nature if they dress/act provocatively. It happens.
But I do wonder if maybe you're missing something here.
Maybe the girls who go home with the guys who lie do so because they think - and hope -- that the guys were interested in them for more than the simple "I'd do ya" -- that maybe by guys being less upfront about their intentions the girls start to believe that just maybe the interest ran deeper than whether he could get inside her body and maybe as deep as him wanting to get into her mind and heart?
And the guys that lie get the girls because they can lie really well and make the girls believe that this could be the start of Something Big, more than a one night stand, that maybe it starts with a leather clad hottie but that it ends in happily ever after.
I'm not saying that it's realistic at all, or even smart. But maybe those girls are just passing up the very up-front "I want you for sex" and going to the liars that make them believe they want something more.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/4069371/693582) | | | Re: Speaking as who fell for it before. | (Link) |
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Probably. If they're looking for a guy interested in more than just that - then they're not dressing in the way most likely to help them find it.
Dressing sexy is sexy, and dressing casual is approachable. I've found the best way to dress to avoid sexual come-ons is upscale professional. A nice Pendleton suit and leather pumps, no one dares hit on me, and I get better service at restaurants.
haha, I'll have to remember that..
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/74957909/463143) | | | In some cases it's a target audience issue. | (Link) |
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Many women, straight women even, aren't dressing for men. They're dressing to impress one another. One of the ways of impressing one another is to be as hot to fellas as possible, but in the end they're in a power game of Which Woman can Dress the Best. That's why the women are asking if other women seem hot--unless they're into the women themselves or in competition with them what would it matter if the other woman seemed hot?
This is why there's fashion at all. If women were just dressing to turn on men outfits wouldn't change much from year to year. Low cut? Tight? Shows off the ass/legs/tits? There ya go--just get it in flattering colors--or red--and replace it when it wears out.
When I dress to impress I tend to take a fella's comment of "nice tits" as a score in the "looking hotter than her" column, no matter what the guy looks like. "Nice tits. Can I play with them?" is a one way ticket to fuck off loser-ville, but that's a whole other story.
It's sort of like when a fella plays shirtless soccer in the park. Women often find this incredibly hot. And sometimes the fellas are in it to impress the women, so everyone's happy. But most of the time the game is with the other fellas.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/76242562/5636534) | | From: | richtermom |
| Date: | June 28th, 2005 05:25 pm (UTC) |
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And I'd have to say that the collary to "ew, the fat old fart guy is staring at me" is "and my hottie hoochie mama outfit is really pissing off the older women here." Every few years, something ruder and more vulgar becomes the rage, and suddenly there are women who used to be perfectly fashionable and hott who are now suddenly wondering about the scruples and self esteem involved in some of the new outfits.
Shortly after I Was Young, all the girls started wearing shirts that showed their bras and bra straps. I just didn't get it. Then a couple more years and it's showing off the ol' Thongs. And of course there's the whole how-low-can-they-go hiphuggers. The clothes are meant to attract but they can certainly segregate as well.
I'm very much a "dress up for other women" girl. I'm attracted to guys, I have a guy, I sometimes hope guys are attracted to me, but I long ago got sick of the snide and bitchy glances, the "I'm better than you's" that I recieved when out in a baggy sweater that hid my cleavage. When I went to places were you were expected to show off your top or bottom and I *wasn't* wearing a little tank top I've even had full grown women make sleazy schoolyard comments--and I'm sorry, but I really wanted to leave that sort of abuse behind in grade school thanks. Sadly enough, even if there might have been a comeback good enough in fourth grade, a way not to take it, it just doens't work against a drunk anorectic blonde and her comrades who are three beers and no food to the wind. So when I'm wearing a camisol tank top in public with tits up to my ears and some utter creep tells me I have nice breasts, well I'd really like to tell him to go bugger off. Enjoy the show that the girlies are forcing everybody to put on at the bloody bar, but just - bugger - off. I've had nice looking guys give compliments before but they always set off my creepy alarm. If I try to turn off the creepy alarm and just be nice back, well... I did that once. I ended up picking up a stalker who harassed me for refusing to sleep with him. That guys don't realize is that half the show is related to childish "I'm better than hers" or simply trying to fade into the background by having as much skin hanging out as the next girl--well, that's their problem honestly. But if I want to go out and just sort of fade into the sea of tits I better have some out there to be seen.
Dude, word. I'd get dressed up in my vinyl tart outfit to go dancin', and inevitably, some guy friend of mine would say something like, "Hey, you look wicked hot, pardon me for saying so," or would briefly ogle my cleavage and then look embarrassed.
Excuse me, I wore this so that people would ogle my cleavage! Why else would I wear it? I swear.
That "pardon me for saying so" actually really gets to me. I feel like if they really think it's that rude they shouldn't be saying it. If you think it's an OK thing to say you don't NEED to apologize. Say it or don't but don't apologize when you do - that just makes you sound like a dork.
I've had people compliment my mid-chest tattoo and then apologize for doing so because it's close to my breasts and looking at it meant *gasp* they must have seen my breasts. And I'm like "hello! I didn't pay $150 for this so that people would pretend not to see it!"
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/5031764/511948) | | From: | kyburg |
| Date: | June 28th, 2005 04:47 pm (UTC) |
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Why do women ask you how another woman looks?
She wants to know if she has more "money" in her wallet than she does.
GAH. Hate stupid women headgames. And no, I don't play them. Not this dance of "attraction," anyway.
Me, too. In fact, the games other women play sicken me. It's just cruel.
I would like to note that when I get all dressed up, I do it for me. I wear shirts everyday that are on the clingy side for me. I look for pants that flatter my hips for me. If men want to think I look good, great. But I do it because when I look in the mirror, I want to see a person who's pretty, put together, and generally uplifting. I feel more confedant when I know I'm putting my best foot forward.
And while I have no problem if men stare, or even talk to me, the moment their staring gets so pronounced that it becomes intrusive or intimidating behavior, and the moment that they say something inappropriate, they've crossed a line. Nothing I wear (and I do have several pairs of very tight pants) is worn in the attempt to "troll for men", and nothing I wear gives anyone a right to treat me with any less respect than is normally owed to a human being.
In fact, even if a woman is walking around with pants that look painted on and five inch heels (or whatever) specifically for the purpose of 'trolling for men', that STILL doesn't make it okay to treat her with any less respect than would be owed to any other human being. If her intent is to string men on or take pleasure in shooting them down, then that's pretty childish, but her being childish does not excuse anyone else being childish back.
Really, the best thing to do with someone like that is to avoid them.
Finally: When I comment on how a woman looks, the answer is not binary to me. It's not a matter of whether or not she ought to be fucked. I might be interested in her facial structure, in the way she's done her hair (or her hair color) in the way she's applied her makeup, or the way she dresses, or even the way she moves. I think with most women, that's what they're looking at when they comment on another woman's appearance. Think of it as the feminine equivlant of commenting on the car that a man drives.
Aiee! This was SO completely me in my 20s. I wanted to look, if you will, hypothetically hot. I wanted every guy in the room to want me. But I didn't want guys to drool all over me, because that freaked me out, so I had a really freezy attitude. So I spent a lot of time wondering why I never got asked out!
Logic wasn't really my strong suit, at that time.
I've really pulled away from that, and decided that if a guy thinks I'm hot, that's awesome. I think it's because I've discovered that I don't the obligation to fuck him just because he tells me that he wants to; well, that and I'm just more comfortable with myself, so I don't need to go all blaming other people for my insecurities...
. I think it's because I've discovered that I don't the obligation to fuck him just because he tells me that he wants to
Indeed, a wise thought to have.
Sexual attraction != sex.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/48100863/912640) | | From: | barryr |
| Date: | June 28th, 2005 05:07 pm (UTC) |
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One of the things I've noticed is a particular type of girl similar to one you mentioned. At conventions- gaming and anime types, where cosplayers frequent, there's a ton of girls who dress up in interesting costumes. Some of them are just about average as far as showing anything, but some are even more revealing than the sluttiest of normal clothes. One girl at the most recent convention I attended wore a skin-colored leotard with a bit of cotton lining it, and that was about it.
She was nice in that she took comments and compliments exceptionally well, and was all about showing off. Other girls aren't like that. I've run into people who wear the most revealing costume possible, whether it matches their favorite character or whatever, and then wonder why they're attracting a crowd of drooling fanboys around them wherever they go. Let's think about this for a second, and no offense to anyone who might read this, but a lot of gamers and anime fans tend to have trouble hiding their attraction to someone. Heck, some guys just don't know better than to say "damn you're hot" or something to that effect. And while it might work coming from the right person, it doesn't work for most. Still, any girl who dresses up in what essentially amounts to a bikini should figure it to be common sense that she's going to be surrounded by people. And not all of them will care if she demands no pictures, or doesn't like them coming on to her.
This is funny because I was at a convention the other week and was noticing this very thing. While, for the most part, I agree with you, some reactions are uncalled for. For example, I had a guy trying to take a picture of my cleavage by taking a picture of the mirror in the elevator. Idiot had his flash on so tried doing again but I ran the hell away.
That? Uncalled for and creepy no matter how I'm dressed. Which, for the record, was just a renaissance festival-ish corset and long skirt.
Mostly I agree with purplekat's comment and wandered here from the sinfest feed community.
See while I understand your point, your view seems to come from the idea that if a woman dresses up, she's doing it solely for the purpouse of attracting a man. Could you qualify what you mean by 'dressing like a hooker'? I'm not asking this to bait you. I really want to know. What if a woman is confident enough to take pleasure in her personal appearance? Where's the line? I'm pretty sure you're not saying, "Well if you don't want me to look and think of you sexually then you'd better be wearing a burka." What I hope you're saying, and what I think you're saying is that a woman should be prepared to deal with 'come-ons' if she follows any sort of mandate of what is commonly considered provocative dress. Logic would dictate this as a possibility considering how well 'sex' sells in our culture. Still, I've honestly had men come on to me while wearing grass stained baggy overalls. I'm not saying this to toot my own horn as if to say, "Dam I'm so fuckable, men want me when I look like a yard work sweat hog." It's just that it's not always about women specifically presenting a possibly intentional sexual appearance. For me showing appreciation is one thing. There is a respectful way to do it. "You look nice. That outfit is really eye catching. Wow. You're really hot." Those are all okay, and I generally don't get my hackles up if strangers make those sort of comments. I generally say 'thank you' and smile. I've been complimented. Compliments, should be thanked. When it gets more 'crude' as in "Hey there sweetness, nice ass, can I wear it as a hat?" I'm not as cool with it. Sexual comments are one thing. They don't offend me. Being rude, and comming across and preditory and overly suggestive as opposed to admiring or appreciative, is not cool. It's threatening and I think it makes most women feel 'puppetized'. I'm not a person, I'm a piece of pretty meat. It's the difference between, "Thanks for giving me something I find pleasurable to look at." and "You must be doing that for ME. Come here baby, and give me some sugar." Maybe I AM doing it for you. But you know something? It's likely that I'D TELL YOU if I was. Really.
I've found the happy medium is to compliment the outfit, or an affect. This tends to take my appreciation off the "piece of meat" scale. Another way to compliment effectively is to notice something that care was clearly taken with (hair, makeup, color coordination, etc) and compliment that. That also shows that the viewer is at least paying attention. |
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