Apparently, certain people need more information on where I stand.

* What do you see as dysfunction about it?

There is far too much visible aggression and conflict / infighting. Yeah, there's "wolfing". Being black shouldn't excuse criminality, nor black-on-black crime.


* What's short-term about our culture?

There is too much emphasis on cars, houses, jewelry, clothes, etc. People get killed for *shoes*. All of this is tied to high spending in the short term, not high investment for the long term.


* What's self-destructive about it?

There is far too much claiming of racism and the community when people should be working for their own betterment. The notion that academic study or speaking proper English is "acting white". The notion that blacks need affirmative action to reach parity, rather than using their given ability to excel. All of these send messages back that blacks aren't as capable, and encourage people to aim lower, rather than higher.


* Where are you getting your information on the black community?

Primarily mass media (newspaper, TV, etc), along with the occasional friend(s) who happened to be black.


* How much time have you spent hanging around in black neighborhoods, or is this purely an outsider's view?

I've lived in "good" neighborhoods and "not so good" neighborhoods, but I've not made a deliberate point specificially hanging around "black" neighborhoods. I've had my share of neighbors who happened to be black, for whatever that's worth. That said, it's a fair statement to say that most of my neighbors have been white.


* Who are you talking to to get this opinion?

I'm drawing my own conclusions based on the information I've managed to gather from what I've observed, and compared with other lifestyles and communities. And, of course, I interact regularly with people who happen to be black. I've found that careful listening can tell you a lot.

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1.So no other race commits crimes against other members of the same race? Then somebody better alert the FBI because last time I checked white male serial killers? Kill white people a lot of the time.

2. Do you know any black people? At all? On lj even? Because what MTV tells you, it's a fantasy.

3. Racism exists. The community? Has been bettering itself for a long tie, or did you miss the Civil Rights Movement?

4. Again, go meet some other black people. Spend some time outside of your judgmental little bubble.

5. See above

6. This one contradicts your other points. Either you know black people and spend time with them in their homes or you don't. What you see on TV or at the mall is no more representative of black culture, than a Kung Fu flick represents Chinese culture.

Your arguments are all based in media representations and have nothing to do with actual experience. Your willingness to condemn an entire community based on the media? Fascinating. Still think your statements didn't bear a hint of racism?

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re: #3, i was actually thinking more along the lines of Reconstruction, if not Denmark Vesey, but still, a valid point.

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I started to trot out towns like Rosewood, but that's too much history. I figure I should keep it recent otherwise I'll get accused of making things up. Then again, I'm already a BIG MEANIE.

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You are a very big meanie. Your poor rugrat!

Seriously tho, isnt this fascinating?

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1. Not worthy of a response.

2. As it so happens, I do, but as they haven't drawn me to the conclusion you want, they obviously don't count.

3. Racism is largely dead from a large-organizational standpoint. As for the Civil Rights movement, yeah, you got the vote, but you also got the double-edged sword of Affirmative Action.

4. See 2.

5. See 2.

6. See 2.

It seems to me you've already made up your conclusion about me and will turn any response to fit it. I don't know why you bother to continue. Indeed, I wonder why I bother...

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I'm not turning any response to fit. Your responses are digging a deeper hole. It seems to me that you will turn any of my answers to a way to justify your viewpoint, instead of examining the fallacies in your statements. When people were listed you summarily announced that one person didn't count, and acted as though their race was not at all a part of their experience. You can't have this both ways.

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The Media thrives on sensationalism and smearing groups of people. They are not an unbiased or fully reliable method to gather information on most topics. One of the first things I was taught in research is that nothing can trump firsthand experience, and practically everything else is a secondary source. Seeing a man play a guitar on a music video overlaced with special effects does not allow me to tell someone how to play a chord.

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What's interesting is how there are others who totally discount personal experience as mere anecdote, lacking significance without number.

I tend to lean toward trusting direct experience and observation as much as possible to minimize external filtering.

But I also recognize the value of macro numbers as confirmation of examples, or refutation of exceptions.

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Hey

I'm writing you because we've had comparatively polite discourse with you before.

Your comments on and criticisms of "the Black Community" do have basis. My main problems with your comments are:
- Inappropriate stereotypy, where you seem to be assuming a nonexistent homogeneity- do you really think that the black middle class kills each other for shoes?
- Inappropriate stereotypy, where you take the negative as being characteristic, and the positive as being dismissible, without clear factual basis.

These two kinds of stereotypy together will commonly lead to "racist" ideas- even from intelligent, well-meaning people.


Speaking as an outsider, it is clear that American institutional racism is alive and well. The racism of the sixties is dead; the racism of the ninteties and aughts flourishes.
I agree with you that there are too many inappropriate charges of racism; what you do not seem to see is that a refusal to acknowledge even the possibility of racism makes that problem worse.

As this thread should exemplify.


cheers

adrian.

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