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Star Wars: The Ferrett's Three-Tiered, Spoiler-Filled Review - The Watchtower of Destruction: The Ferrett's Journal
December 19th, 2015
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Star Wars: The Ferrett's Three-Tiered, Spoiler-Filled Review
Look back to my last entry: that's the one where my family got Star Wars tattoos.

That oughtta tell you how seriously we take Star Wars around here.

So I'm going to have three levels of spoilers: A thumbs-up yes or no on whether I personally liked it, more general thoughts for those who'd like a spoiler-free review that discusses some elements in the movie I liked and/or disliked, and then SHIT GETS REAL.

The comments are where I expect y'all to go berserk with your feedback, so if you want no spoilers, stay out of the comments.  But if you wanna discuss how things coulda gone down better or worse, to tweak plot threads, to pull nitpicks, pull up a seat.

So!


I've seen it twice, now.  First time was 70% thumbs-up.  After a second viewing, I'm up to 80% positive.

If you are a fan of the Holy Trilogy, I would seriously advise you to get in there.  There's a lot to like.  It's floating around ROTJ level for me, but that's not a fair measurement; The Force Awakens is more consistent, with a storyline that doesn't share ROTJ's often-tedious weaknesses, but ROTJ's strengths in the climax still smash TFA out of the water.

That said, this ranking may rise or fade over time; I remember once liking The Phantom Menace, so let's give this a few months.


And....


Here's the most amazing part of The Force Awakens:

If you'd told me, "The biggest problem with the new Star Wars movie is that it spends too much time on the old characters," I would have been baffled.

But it's true!  Finn, Rey, and Poe Dameron are all so likeable and fun that the major problems I have with the movie are the places where I actually wanted more time with them.  I mean, it's great to see the old gang back in action, but honestly?  I fucking love these new guys, with all my heart.  They are utterly worthy hallmarks of the canon.

And you know how they do it? Character-based humor and emotion.   You know, all the things that Lucas forgot in the prequels.  Finn and Rey and Poe are great because they consciously choose to become heroes - making hard choices to protect the things they love - and then they pull off a one-liner that makes you love them.

I've often said my novel FLEX is not a great novel, but it's the kind of novel you can have a beer with.  And likeability is a major quality - there are too many great films that you appreciate and don't love.  I can't say whether TFA is great yet, but I can definitely say it's likeable as fuck.

Yet there's a pulled focus in the third act, where we're trying very hard to give people The Old Star Wars experience, and it mostly works.... but it's the weakest part of of what's otherwise an overall strong film.

But they've got a magnificent villain, and they've got great heroes.  It's a strong start.

Would see again. Will see again.


And now....


Okay, so the Big Thing isn't the thing that concerns me.  I'll get to the Big Thing, but come on, the minute he stepped out into that catwalk, we all knew what was gonna happen.

What concerns me is Another Fucking Death Star.

The Death Star is a mistake, because we have two battles going on simultaneously, and one is utterly not rooted in character and the other is.  It's notable that Poe at this point hasn't even met Rey, so he's flying around up there for Abstract Heroic Reasons.  His triumph is not dependent upon anything that happens on the ground - and as a result, that whole Big Space Battle is the least compelling part.  We know Poe's going to save the day - the question is, what's at stake for him?

Well, saving millions of people.

We don't give a shit about millions of people, though.  We care about specific people.

Look at the first film, and the way they handle the Death Star is magnificent.  When they blow up a planet we've never seen before, they do something very smart: they place the person who cares most about it in the room.  We care about Alderaan not because Oh The Humanity, but because Leia is now begging them not to destroy her home world, and we see her betrayal, her strength, her heartbreak.

Blowing up a planet in absentia is a tragedy, but it's a distant tragedy like Somalia; oh, that's sad, isn't it?

Leia watching it is like watching your neighbor's kid get stabbed.

And when the Death Star comes around in Act III, the princess - you know, the person who our heroes have moved heaven and earth to save - is in danger again.  If she gets blown up, everything we've worked for is undone.

Whereas in this film, the Death Star is blowing up ancillary characters - yeah, I like Leia, but she's got nothing to do in this film anyway.  It's like making the entire third act of Return of the Jedi about endangering Mon Mothma.  And so it's pretty notable that absolutely nobody in the theater cheered when Poe "won," because yeah he saved millions of abstract people but we just lost the one guy who really mattered to us.

(And yeah, the same thing happened in ANH - but that was the end of the second act, and we had a breather, and Obi-Wan's sacrifice was critical to victory, so it all tied together.  This death is straight in the middle of the third act, and frankly everyone could die on the ground after Chewie set the charges and they'd still win, rendering this victory needless in terms of anyhing Finn and Rey accomplish.)

(And as Gini noted, when the sample planets got destroyed, note how no one on the ground ever blinks an eye.  Nobody mourns the demise of Coruscant, for Christ's sake, the seat of government, and so the emotional impact is, once again, Somalia, not your neighbor's kid.)

What I'm saying is, this whole third act could have - and arguably should have - taken place on a starship, not Another Fucking Death Star.  And I feel that Poe's struggle should have been emotionally connected to Finn's struggle, or at least to the Rebellion's struggle, in some way that wasn't abstract.

Here's my plot fix to render the Death Star more relevant:

Me?  I'd have Kylo Ren get the map - whether that's by stealing it from Rey's head, or BB-8, or... something.  I'd have it so they both have Rey and know where Luke is.

And Kylo Ren goes to General Gollum and says, "We know where Luke Skywalker is.  At last, I will go to my old master and destroy him personally, and have revenge!"

And General Gollum goes, "Nah, we're just gonna blow his planet up.  The Jedi Temple will be destroyed."

Now the storylines are more entwined.  Poe's original mission? Get Luke Skywalker.  He's invested in destroying this damn Death Star, and his friend Finn is below, and we have to not only stop the Death Star but steal the plans back so we know where Skywalker is.  (Sure, this assumes nobody on the Death Star makes backup copies, but technology in SW is always weirdly plot-dependent.)  Poe is emotionally invested in getting the plans for the thing that was of concern to him at the beginning of the film, and getting his friend back to safety as well, and so he's gonna be concerned and we're gonna get a big happy reunion when Finn returns.  

Speaking of: I dislike the way that Finn is unconscious at the end of it.  I know, I know, people like Dark, and the folks who are saying this is second to Empire are the same doofs who are all like "AH LIKES MAH UNHAPPY ENDINGS," and sure, you're welcome to that.  But for me, the bond between Finn and Rey was so powerful that I wanted to see one last interaction with them that wasn't just unconsciousness.  I wanted to have some closing to this thing that indicated their friendship was strong that was active, not some Snow White Special.

So.

...that whole Han thing?

Sure.

I wasn't particularly traumatized by Han's death, because as I said, CATWALK == DEATH.  There was no chance that he'd walk out there and Kylo Ren would go, "Oh, sure, I'll come back home."  And so my reaction was closer to "Oh, Harrison Ford finally got what he wanted," as Harrison's wanted Han dead for years, and...

It was a good sacrifice.

Han fought for the wrong reasons, and that final caress was perfect.

(Though frankly, since it looks like Luke is gonna play Dumbledore here, that means he's gotta die, and I wonder if THE FORCE AWAKENS trilogy is going to be "We kill off someone you love at the end of every picture!"  Climaxing with the destruction of Artoo, presumably.)

That said, I'm gonna pay a compliment and then backtrack: Kylo Ren is a villain absolutely on the level with Vader.  He's fascinating, he's scary, and he's different - his temper tantrums are exactly what you'd expect of an untrained child.  You can see him steeling himself up to kill - the scenes where he's beating his wound, trying to summon the anger, trying to convince himself that yes, I am a Very Bad Man, are brilliant.

(Also, he stops a blaster bolt in mid-air.  That's a terrifying display of power.)

But what we have are reasons, not motivations, and I wish we'd had a motivation.

"Reasons" are facts: I hate my father.  Therefore, I'm mad at him.

Motivations tell us why he's mad, and they're more specific: My stupid father sent me off to the Jedi academy when I was six, at Padawan age, before I could remember what he was like, and so I loathe him until the end of my days.

Now, if you're deeply sympathetic, you fill in blanks, and so reasons and motivations get slurred.  If I tell you, "My neighbor's kid got stabbed, so she shot the motherfucker," most people will fill in the motivation of "She killed her son's killer for revenge, she must have loved her son deeply."

But the actual motivaton behind the reasons could be, "She held her useless son up as a shield when her boyfriend started to get abuseively, he stabbed the kid instead of her, and that's when she flung her son to one side and realized she had to kill this motherfucker before she got hurt."

What we have with Kylo Ren are a bunch of "I hate my father!" but I wish we'd had one scene where they interacted somehow so we knew why.  Lots of people have opinions.  It probably is because he got sent away to the Jedi Academy to be corrupted by General Gollum - but again, that's not stated.  And I think stating it would have been stronger, as he has so many great scenes, but I could have used that one.  What the hell triggered this guy?

(Also, when he unmasked?  I went, "Jesus, where did that schnozz come from?  He looks nothing like either of them!" But hey, he's a good actor, so let's go with it.)  

But hey!  Maybe they're going to get into that!  Which is something I do really dislike about this series - it's a clear cliffhanger, and it makes it hard to review because maybe that's a teaser!  Maaaybe we'll find allll about Kylo Ren in the second movie, and we'll discover why people seem to remember Finn instantly in the second movie, and maybe...

Maybe it'll be like LOST, where that plot thread people were sure was going to be resolved got forgotten!

Who can say?

That said, I absolutely adore both Finn and Rey - and if Rey's last name isn't "Skywalker," I'll eat my hat.  (And it's a good hat.)  And Luke was my boy in the first trilogy, but you know what?

Finn is my man in this movie.

I love Finn because he's not a badass.  Rey is a natural hero - Oh, here, little droid, I'll protect you - but I love the way Finn's characterization starts because he's not sure of himself.  He discovers that he needs to do the right thing, but this new Star Wars is fascinating because Finn is a hero and Finn himself doesn't know it.  He hasn't internalized that sense of himself yet.  All he knows is that this person he has come to love - whether that's Finn or Poe - is in danger, and he has to protect them, and fuck you, this man will move heaven and earth until he saves them.

Fuck, I'm crying right now.  Two viewings, and that is how much I interact with Finn.

And Finn?  He's me.  Because unlike Rey, who's all like, "Sure, I'll do the hero thing," Finn is fucking terrified.  "Are you ready for this?" "Hell no."

But look at him.  He's scared, but he is going to do this, because someone has to and it's him.

I love him so hard for that.  He is my struggle.  And I'm already hoping the movies don't fuck up and turn him into Plucky Sidekick and instead show us the same character development that Sokka got in the Last Airbender, where yeah, you don't get the super-special Jedi Force powers, but you do get to be relevant and impactful.

And I suspect that, like Luke, a lot of people will disdain Finn because really, he's not yet competent.  He doesn't win any battles, honestly - he's a support fighter.  And some folks will go, "Oh, what a wuss, what a whiner," and trash-talk him, and to that I say fuck them proactively, because I am staking out territory in Finn-land and I will not relinquish it until later movies fuck up this character that I have deeply bonded with.

And God, let's talk Poe.  I'm so sad Poe is underutilized, because I love his casual competence - I love the way he explains the ship to Finn, like a pilot, but assured.  He's not quite cocky, but he is assured, and when they hugged at their reunion I teared up.  But right now, Poe is an ascended Wedge, and I hope the next movie gives him some character development to work with.

BB-8?

I will hear nothing bad said about BB-8. NOTHING.  He's an Artoo upgrade, but he's adorable and that's great.

Leia?  As I mentioned earlier, I wish Leia had gotten to do something aside from sit around and look wistful.  Yeah, it's great that she's a General, but I wanted to see her Generaling - leading the assault against the Stormtroopers as opposed to showing up afterwards.  I wanted her to save Han.  I wanted her to, you know, do anything, and she didn't.

But damn, doesn't Mark Hamill look fucking awesome these days?

Captain Phasma, sadly, is a sign that Star Wars will never escape its toyetic roots.  She's basically eye candy, doing absolutely nothing, and yet when I went out to the lobby they had 3D Captain Phasma glasses for sale and Gini and Amy went, "Oh, yeah, Captain Phasma," and at the end of it Captain Phasma was an absolute victim of hype.  I mean, I'm glad that actress is getting work, and I'm glad they made a female enemy, but the enemy was a background character who didn't even need a name, as we had four villains and that's really one too many.

I'm lurching all over here, but let's discuss that final battle.  I love that Kylo was seriously injured - you did note how carefully they laid that gun on the mantle, by showing how potent Chewie's bowcaster was? - which made two untrained mooks taking on a Sith master believable.  I love how Finn tried, and even held his own for a moment - he got one good hit in, which is more than I thought he would - before getting wrecked.

And Rey, well, I don't have much to say about Rey because she's fucking perfect for me, the one note this film hit pure and high and never wavered on.  But that battle...

I loved how sloppy the fights were.  Kylo was injured, and thrashes like an angry kid anyway.  This wasn't some acrobatic display like in the prequels; this was a story, where both of them were evoking character through violence, and Kylo was swinging wildly, bullying, threatening, and Rey was refusing to cave to that.

And you know what I love most of all?

She fought for the Light Side, motherfuckers.

That scene.  When she's pressed to her limits, and she looks within herself for serenity... you can feel it.  You can feel the power of her being at peace with herself.  She's not fighting because she's upset, she's fighting for a cause, and she wrecks that motherfucker with the potency of grace and beauty and...

Two times I've cried writing this.  So fuck it, that's your review, you know?

Anyway. The comments are open. Go nuts with observations on shit you loved or hated, little moments you feel I forgot, complaints to my complaints.  Overall, I liked it.  I think I'll like it more.

(109 shouts of denial | Tell me I'm full of it)

Comments
 
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From:Billy_Todd
Date:December 19th, 2015 07:31 pm (UTC)

Not Coruscant

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Agree with this review almost entirely, except one nitpick: external source material (Visual Encyclopedia, I think) says that the destroyed system is not Coruscant. Under the New Republic, the capital moves from system to system every few years as a concession demanded by the systems that were Separatists during the Clone Wars.

So yes, the Senators and the Chancellor of the Republic are now all dead, but Coruscant that we know and love (?) still stands.
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From:kmg_365
Date:December 20th, 2015 02:04 am (UTC)

RE: Not Coruscant

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None of the planets they showed had the Blade Runner look to them, so I figured they weren't Coruscant. Glad to hear that it wasn't, not out of any love for that planet but because this is a galaxy...there's got to be a whole bunch of planets out there. Let's see them. :)
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From:Billy_Todd
Date:December 19th, 2015 07:39 pm (UTC)

Han

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Can we also award many points for avoiding the temptation to have Han go out in a General-Solo-Ex-Smuggler-Saving-Leia blaze of glory? He died in the act of parenting, and forgave his abused son on the way out, and that was devastating.
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From:zoethe
Date:December 19th, 2015 08:17 pm (UTC)

Re: Han

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Really good point. And you made me cry.
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From:xuenay
Date:December 19th, 2015 08:19 pm (UTC)
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I really liked Kylo Ren, too. In particular, it would have been so easy for them to introduce another quiet, bad-ass, competent Dark Jedi as This Trilogy's Vader Figure... but that would have raised the question, where the heck do all of these keep coming from, especially now that the Emperor and Vader are gone?

Instead, we get a character who shows that the Dark Side has also lost skills and competence when the Empire got wiped out, the same way that the Light Side lost most of their accumulated knowledge when the Jedi Order got wiped out. Disney didn't just copy the template of the previous movies, they did things differently, and that difference wasn't just something random but rather the natural consequence of what happened in the Original Trilogy.

In a lot of works, the main characters level up and get stronger, so to keep things balanced, the creators somehow upgrade the bad guys too, no matter how contrived that gets. Here we had the opposite - the balance is maintained by making everyone weaker, rather than making everyone stronger. That feels really refreshing for a work in this genre.
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From:theferrett
Date:December 20th, 2015 07:25 pm (UTC)
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This is a really good point, and I would have to have this comment bronzed.
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From:ckd
Date:December 19th, 2015 08:19 pm (UTC)
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The reluctant hero Finn stuff also really works for me. (In fact, I half-expected Han to use that as part of his appeal to Kylo Ren: "That kid went through a life meant to turn him into a puppet, and he's changed. We're here to help you change too.")

I think Jakku is SW-language for "basically Tatooine but we had to call it something else to avoid excessive continuity geekery".
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From:cynic51
Date:December 24th, 2015 04:01 am (UTC)
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I'm told Jakku is a setting of a major battle in one of the Star Wars videogames.
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From:radiumhead
Date:December 19th, 2015 08:24 pm (UTC)
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Im really pissed about harrison ford. Hes the only reason i wanted to see this movie in the first place, and wanted him in all 3. Its obvious he wanted out asap. Its real shitty. Knowing hes dead, i dont know if i even want to see 8 & 9. No solo, no vader, whats the fucking point? These movies shouldnt have been made. But of course money talks. Nothing can ever die a natural death anymore and stay dead.

Edited at 2015-12-19 08:25 pm (UTC)
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From:radiumhead
Date:December 19th, 2015 08:27 pm (UTC)
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I totally got the opposite vibe you did. Im pissed theyre teasing us with the original characters, just to trick us into buying this new bullshit.
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From:zoethe
Date:December 20th, 2015 01:33 am (UTC)
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So apparently you missed EVERYTHING they were saying about how this was handing over the story to a new generation and the old characters were there to hand the story over?

Also, the Star Wars universe is way bigger than three people. I'm thrilled to get stories from it that don't even involve the central three--so far mostly in the novels and the small screen, but soon to include the big screen.
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From:soon_lee
Date:December 19th, 2015 08:45 pm (UTC)
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"Leia? As I mentioned earlier, I wish Leia had gotten to do something aside from sit around and look wistful. Yeah, it's great that she's a General, but I wanted to see her Generaling - leading the assault against the Stormtroopers as opposed to showing up afterwards."

I agree that they should have found more for her to do. But this was not it. It's one of my pet peeves when command goes into combat. That's no longer their job. ST:TNG got that right when Picard stayed onboard while Riker etc. went on away missions. Leia leading from the front would have been a mistake. What they should have done is to show more of her being the General (directing strategy & tactics from C&C, not looking wistful, not being the groundpounder). Missed opportunity there.
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From:theferrett
Date:December 20th, 2015 07:26 pm (UTC)
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Well, even then it's not too hard to have a shot of the troops hitting the ground and Leia barking orders, showing how she's leading the assault.
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From:seventorches
Date:December 19th, 2015 09:33 pm (UTC)
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I kept wanting her polearm to be Darth Maul's unpowered lightsaber halberd thing that she'd scavenged.
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From:gows
Date:December 21st, 2015 04:42 am (UTC)
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Haha! Yesss.
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From:peterchayward
Date:December 20th, 2015 12:15 am (UTC)
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>Two viewings, and that is how much I interact with Finn.

Is that meant to be "interact" or a different word?
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From:das_hydra
Date:December 20th, 2015 12:59 am (UTC)
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My mother hates the actor who they chose for Kylo; in her words "he looks NOTHING like Fisher and Ford!" Now, whether she thought the character was any good is unknown, because she was so distracted by the non-resemblance.

Me? I don't care. I know the Dark Side changes features (hello, Palpatine!) But it took me a moment to really get the character's tantrums. If *ever* there was a sign he was a Skywalker that would be it. Seriously. I'm expecting we will get into the daddy/mommy issues in the next chapter.

Rey is so Luke's daughter it isn't funny. Also: both grandchildren display so much Anakin in their talents (Rey's mechanical wizardry, Kylo's temper tantrums) it's neat. (And I mean proper Anakin, not whiny bitch Hayden version.) I really love the idea of a cousins' war for the Light/Dark.

BB-8 IS EVERYTHING I HOPED FOR. When he went over to R2 and bumped him, I nearly started crying. I didn't really care about C3P0 but R2, man.

re: Han's demise - when Ford started getting really chatty and involved on the press circuit, I knew then it was over. Dude has long wished for that and, now that I've had 24 hours to think on it, he was the only character that could have been the sacrificial lamb in this one. Han's been the everyman for the viewers and now Finn will (rightfully and awesomely) take over.

Still, the impact of the end didn't hit me until way after I left the theater and now I'm like HOW WILL I EVER WATCH EMPIRE AGAIN WHEN I KNOW WHAT HAPPENS 30 YEARS LATER. I have deep Han feels, yo. From the first time my mother put on the original movie for me to watch, I have been a Han girl.

I love Finn and I am extremely happy with him. The best part with Poe, for me, was the "I've always wanted to fly" a TIE fighter. Oh my god, that was ME right there in that scene!

I had trouble with Rey at first, because I wasn't sure they would handle her properly. (See: Captain Phasma, what a waste.) And yeah, she's a bit rough in places, characterization wise, but when her face went blank and you totally saw her slip into the Force during that battle, I was like OKAY I AM DOWN WITH THIS! The actress can totally do that and not look fake doing it, so, yeah. I'm down with it.

My mother, who saw the original in '77 and is basically responsible for my being into the films, summed it up as: "If you weren't around or didn't come into the films during the original run, that magic is very hard to capture and you can't appreciate as well the story continuation in this one." That said, she liked this one enough that she said so.

Me? I need to see it again, but I am leaning towards "yes I like this".
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From:mastadge
Date:December 20th, 2015 01:20 am (UTC)
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My mother hates the actor who they chose for Kylo; in her words "he looks NOTHING like Fisher and Ford!" Now, whether she thought the character was any good is unknown, because she was so distracted by the non-resemblance.

Me? I don't care. I know the Dark Side changes features


Also people just generally don't necessarily look like their parents. When I read this I had a weird mental image of going to a kid's birthday party and throwing a tantrum that the child didn't look like the parents.
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From:kmg_365
Date:December 20th, 2015 01:58 am (UTC)
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When I saw the cover of Entertainment Weekly that mentioned a new Death Star, I thought "oh fuck, not another Death Star!" It made me worry that JJ was going to pull another Star Trek 2 and recycle a lot of storylines. And he did. Plans hidden in droid, bad guys chase him? Check! Cantina scene? Check! Yavin scene? Check! Han saves the day by setting charges in a key military instalation? Check! While that didn't ruin the movie for me, he could have advanced the story with more original writing.

When Kylo removed his mask, I literally thought "why did they cast Gene Simmons' kid instead of someone who looks like Ford and Fisher?" Appearance aside, he was a great casting choice. When he was going ballistic after Poe escaped, I thought it was a good comedic moment...then they told us who he was, just a kid, an apprentice, and it clicked. His reaction was perfect.

Han's death didn't surprise me. It, and the duel, had something the original movie had and the prequels lacked: drama and emotion. It wasn't about acrobatics, it was telling a story. When Kylo told Han that he just wanted the pain to end? That got me right here.

The final duel kind of pissed me off initially. There's no way Kylo should have lost, I told myself. I don't care if he was injured. I would have preferred to see Rey get the lightsaber, the earth opens, and the two never fight. But the more I thought about it, the more I thought "this makes sense." I was reminded of Yoda's admonition to Luke: Control, control, you must learn control! Kylo was pissed. Finn and Rey had HIS lightsaber. Sure, the Dark Side uses anger, but controlled anger. Rey unwittingly took advantage of that. And while Rey regrouped by focusing on the Force, she was overwhelming him the same way her father, I mean, Luke, defeated Vader: she looked angry. Could spell trouble down the road.

Kylo displayed some pretty frightening, and new, powers...so when Snope said it was time for him to compete his training, I thought "holy shit, what else will this kid be able to do?!"

I was disappointed that Luke didn't have a bigger part, but I have to say that Mark's acting when he saw the lightsaber? All done with his eyes? Pretty damn awesome.

And speaking of awesome? BB-8. Beats out R2 for best droid ever. They infused such personality into it, and it was natural, not forced.

Rey? Awesome. Finn? Awesome. Kylo? Awesome. Han? Surprisingly awesome. This is a movie that gets better the more I reflect on it, so I know that when I see it again it will only rise higher in my mind. I place it fourth behind ESB, ANH and ROTJ. Not sure if it will bump up. Only time will tell.
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From:theferrett
Date:December 20th, 2015 07:28 pm (UTC)
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I really liked how Kylo got injured. It was a blast that took out groups of Stormtroopers, so yeah, I bought that he was barely standing after that.
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From:immemor
Date:December 20th, 2015 02:06 am (UTC)
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You cried twice for an 80%... what's going to happen when they get you in the 90%s?

I agree with your critiques. The other six movies were all about the choices of (with the exception of Han and Chewie) the elite. But Finn really emphasizes how this is all about the choices we make. He was trained/programmed not to do what was right and yet he found it in himself to do so. Suddenly, the stormtroopers (not counting clone wars) are interesting. And yes, I wanted more Poe but, for this episode, I feel that the emphasis on Rey, Finn and Han was right for the emotional journey.

Only one year until Rogue One!
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From:theferrett
Date:December 20th, 2015 07:29 pm (UTC)
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"You cried twice for an 80%... what's going to happen when they get you in the 90%s?"

Hey, that's 100% of STAR WARS, man. High expectations. I teared up at Phantom Menace!
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From:ericadawn16
Date:December 20th, 2015 02:46 am (UTC)
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"The biggest problem with the new Star Wars movie is that it spends too much time on the old characters,"

YES! Actually, it reached the point that whenever we were NOT with Finn, Rey or Poe, I was utterly disappointed.

I literally hated all the villains and not in a good way, it was a...okay, you bore me, go away now way but I will be totally General Gollum to add to my already calling Hux Evil Bill Weasley or Death Eater Bill Weasley.
I'm also going to giggle whenever I watch Love, Actually from now on because Qui-Gon's step-son ends up working for the Empire...I also kind of...wanna...read actual fanfic for that...not a serious story like we get with Ben Solo but TOTAL CRACKFEST!

Does Ben dye his hair or did Han's parents carry a black hair gene? My science mind can accept everything except those genetics producing a black haired child...and yeah, the nose doesn't make sense either.

Yes, Death Star=STUPID! It's like that joke in Austin Powers when Dr. Evil is like, What? I'm just going to leave him alone and assume he dies because that's the PLAN!
Because it's not as though making a Death Star is the equivalent of buying the latest "indestructible" dog toy or a squirrel proof bird feeder.

My brother was fine with this because he claimed it was just like real government.

I'm still in disbelief about Coruscant because it looked LIKE Coruscant but everyone's like...whatever, that's sad...and there's been nothing online about it...even with the whole social media embargo/spoiler nazis, you would think that would have more affect.

I like your fix better.

Yes, I love Rey and there was an effort at more diversity BUT I wanted more quality general female characters because Leia got that heart wrenching reaction bit but otherwise, it was almost all about her son, their relationship whatever and I wanted more. I also wanted her and Chewie to comfort each other at the end.

She really gets the shaft. Well, the love of your life died, your son did it but hey, WE FOUND YOUR BROTHER, woo!

Plus, the guilt over telling Han to confront him like that, damn. I know it's supposed to contrast with ROTJ and her being against Luke doing the same thing but...damn, if there's something horrible that can be done to a character in the Star Wars universe, it has been done to Leia. However...I did like how we saw Rey demonstrate "formidable resistance to the mind probe" that Vader mentioned about Leia in ANH.

While you worry about Luke and Artoo being killed eventually...I'm worried about Leia because as before, shit always fucking happens to her.

And dammit, Phasma was supposed to be awesome and she wasn't even second in command!!!

But brownie points for Admiral Ackbar and Sullust Numb!
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From:Billy_Todd
Date:December 20th, 2015 11:02 pm (UTC)

Coruscant

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Just a correction: as per my post above, it wasn't Coruscant. The capital of the New Republic moves around.
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From:dabble
Date:December 20th, 2015 04:32 am (UTC)
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I loved the film. Loved it. Wept like a child when Han died. I felt utter loss at that moment.

Kylo's character is glorious in its imperfectedness. Loved everything about his journey. I adore the new characters too. They feel solid and like good fits to the storyline.

One thing, next time you see Neil Gaiman, I'm convinced that Kylo is his love child. His and Severus Snape. And during the last battle there is some Marilyn Manson in the mix. Just saying.

Still loved him though...
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From:theferrett
Date:December 20th, 2015 07:29 pm (UTC)
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He does kinda look like Neil! Though Neil would never turn to the dark side.
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From:angledge
Date:December 20th, 2015 07:37 am (UTC)
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I was delighted at how they seemingly misled the whole Internet on who was behind The Mask. We were all so certain it was Luke, gone baaaad! How they must've laughed, reading post upon post about it! Once Kylo Ren was onscreen, I thought it was pretty obvious from his body shape that it wasn't Mark Hamill. But up until that point I thought I knew. Brilliant misdirect.

Edited at 2015-12-20 07:53 am (UTC)
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From:radiumhead
Date:December 20th, 2015 02:12 pm (UTC)
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They didnt mislead anyone. Maybe at the beginning for a tiny bit. But They said pretty much said from the start it was driver. There were magazine photo shoots of him in the outfit with the mask off.
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From:tormentedartist
Date:December 20th, 2015 11:12 am (UTC)

That final fight...

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Made Kylo Ken look like a bitch. A whiny bitch. I loved his outburst earlier in the movie..because it like his light saber showed what a loose cannon the character was...but you mean to tell me that this girl who has never held a light saber in her life can go toe to toe with someone that trained with a Jedi Knight for I am assuming years ??? Even wounded Kylo should have been able to take Rey out without sustaining much damage to himself.
I would have used the earthquake as a way to let Rey and Finn escape with their lives.

Rylo Ken should have been terrifying. A hero is only as good as the villain. And Rylo isn't much of a threat. He was a joke as far as I could see. Which makes our heroes look like jokes as well.

But I loved Finn. I thought he was very convincing as a character and a hero. You felt how over his head he was and yet he was able to pull it together to get shit done. I have the sense that Kylo Ken would have fallen apart given the same situation. He would have thrown his light saber down and started crying.
I was sad that they wasted Rylo Ken....
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From:tormentedartist
Date:December 20th, 2015 11:14 am (UTC)

Re: That final fight...

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BTW loved your Death Star fix...
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From:radiumhead
Date:December 20th, 2015 02:15 pm (UTC)
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Im amazed. Everyone likes this movie & so many of the decisions they made sound fucking horrible.
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From:theferrett
Date:December 20th, 2015 07:31 pm (UTC)
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Well, if you want really dumb things and they wisely don't provide them, then you're not gonna be happy with the final product.
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From:garseironjade
Date:December 20th, 2015 03:07 pm (UTC)
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I liked the cliffhangers. The subtle ones and the obvious ones. By subtle I mean, are we EVER going to get an answer. Similar to why I like ASOIAF and similar epic fantasy/space opera stuff. You may NOT get an answer and that's ok because there's where your imagination can run wild.


As to the obvious cliffhangers. The mystery surrounding Rey (and Snoke for that matter) and the fact that we have to wait at least a few more years is great to me, because it's great for the imagination.



Edited at 2015-12-20 05:26 pm (UTC)
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From:odogonefishin
Date:December 21st, 2015 03:49 am (UTC)

Rey

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I agree completely that she's Luke's kid... and it wasn't her interaction with Luke that sealed that with me - it was her and Han... when she told him why she needed to return to Jakku, you can see it in his eyes... he KNOWS who she is, but she isn't his kid. He knows that her parents left her on Jakku and, more importantly, WHY they left her there.
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From:cyan_blue
Date:December 25th, 2015 05:39 pm (UTC)
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Interesting theory - I'll have to go back and re-watch that scene with an eye to that, eventually.

I think Han might have an inner intuition about her, but I don't think Han and Leia know they have a niece. I am guessing Rey was hidden by way of sending her pregnant mother off around the time when Kylo went rogue, before Kylo knew of the pregnancy, so that Kylo couldn't seek out and kill Luke's Kid.
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From:khiron1416
Date:December 21st, 2015 06:24 pm (UTC)
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so, what about Rey being REALLY good at mind control and using the force for attack right out of the box?
Dark side candidate? child of 2 force users? one evil cough mara jade cough.
will kylo now be all burnt up and need to wear a mask..
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From:Laura Digges
Date:December 21st, 2015 08:20 pm (UTC)
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I think you are very wrong about Kylo Ren's motivation. Specifically, I don't think he hates his father at all. I think that's the source of his conflict: he loves his father very much, he doesn't want to kill him at all, but he has to if he wants to progress with the Dark Side. His love for his father and his father's love for him are what could pull him back to the Light. But Ren chooses darkness, and manages to kill Han despite his love, and he thinks that will make him stronger.

I would also put Ren above Vader as a villain. But then, I always appreciate an articulate villain over a villain who can't talk their way out of a paper bag.
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From:alexmegami
Date:December 23rd, 2015 05:21 am (UTC)
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I think it's actually much more a Voldemort type of thing: he thinks his non-Force-sensitive father is the one holding him back. If he had TWO Force-sensitive parents (...like Rey?) he'd be stronger. Someone elsewhere on the internet pointed out he never mentions Leia when he's ranting. It's always about Han.

My theory for the pull to the Light Side is that he's desperately trying to reach out to Darth Vader, and his untrained ass is occasionally feeling Anakin going "NO THAT ENDED REALLY BADLY FOR ME GRANDSON, DON'T DO IT" and not recognizing it as such.

That, and I think he more wants to be *noticed* and *special* (might be kind of hard with near-mythical parents) and... isn't/wasn't. Teenage angst might not actually be enough to do it.
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From:greybeta
Date:December 21st, 2015 11:54 pm (UTC)
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JJ Abrams went back to the well. But we liked the taste of the water the first time around, so the second time around it also tasted pretty good.

I also liked the new characters. It seems they're saving things for the other two movies. Perhaps predictable reveals, but at this point the sheer volume of guesses someone is bound to hit on the plan.

R2-D2 was popular, but we could see ole R2 usurped by BB-8.

As soon as Rey started thinking the same as Han Solo, I was reminded of that old trope that says if you have two characters with the same mindset and abilities, one of them is superfluous. At that moment I had a good suspicion Han would die.

It also bothers me that there seemed to be waaaaay more TIE fighters than X-wings and yet there never seemed to enough TIE fighters to down the X-wings.

Lightspeed travel seemed OP. Well, you have shields, but we can just go past them at will. Also, starting a lightspeed maneuver within a base should throw your calculations off a little bit.

And it seems like everyone can track the Millenium Falcon these days?
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From:the_leewit
Date:December 23rd, 2015 03:46 am (UTC)
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I wish they'd have lampshaded sucking up the energy of the star enough to explain that the entire ecosystems of the planets involved would not simply collapse even if the Starkiller (nice nod to the original character names, btw, Abrams) was stopped... I mean, that star looked at least 20% smaller by volume by the time everyone was starting to sweat.
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From:larrythelabrat
Date:December 23rd, 2015 03:51 pm (UTC)

Really liked it

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I really liked TFA. Not loved, but really liked.

There seemed to be a deliberate effort to up the diversity of the humans; and while it felt a little like a checklist, I still approve of the effort.

I don't think JJ like cars (or vehicles in general) nearly as much as other SF directors. There is very little time spent in transit, which makes the universe feel smaller. Rey jumps in her ship as soon as she has the map, and then she's found Luke. We see her walking up a hill, but not flying through space; whereas a lot of the development of character and bonds happened while the folks were getting from one place to another. Tie fighters and x-wings can show up at the cantina at the drop of a hat. Everything is just really close. Even the Big Bad Death-Star+ is a faster than light weapon so it doesn't have go visit the new planets that it's going to blow up.

It felt like there was enough throw back reference to the old stuff (the table and training ball in the Falcon, etc) to honor the old; without getting buried by it.

I'm surprised at how many different ways folks knew Han was going to die. For you it was the catwalk. Buddy of mine knew as soon as they showed Han giving Chewie the detonator. I knew as soon as he confronts his son face to face. But while everyone I've talked to saw it coming, we've also agreed that Harrison Ford sold it really well.

JJ did not sell the technology well though. "We can just get through the shield at light speed" well then why the hell doesn't everyone, and why even have shields? Originally (expanded universe) gravity interfered with hyperspace; otherwise you could just smack hyperspeed missiles into things. Jumping from the cargo bay, and then jumping through the shield? The first was sloppy, the second was criminal failure in world-building.

I'd be really disappointed if Rey's last name is Skywalker. Screw that. Episodes 1-3 made the universe small enough by implying the only cosmic agents were already intertwined (Anakin built C-3PO? That was lame shoe-horning). Fresh blood and new heritage; don't make Rey another Skywalker. There's also a lot less time in training. Everyone just started at a higher level of competence. Rey feels the force, and suddenly she's mind controlling people? That kind of skill used to take a while to develop...

The dues ex machina of R2 coming back? Maybe he's force sensitive, and set to awaken when there's a big disturbance; but that should have been when 5 PLANETS FULL OF PEOPLE GOT WHACKED, not one old smuggler. That was harder to take than the old lightsaber waking up and calling to Rey (who better not be a skywalker)

But I don't want to see the Jedi come back. I want Luke to have to come to grips with the fact that the jedi created a false dichotomy that's always going to leave some people susceptible to being twisted. Or something bigger and more meaningfull. Take the whole narrative a brand new direction and make it bigger. Another family member redemption, with Vadar's sequel going through the same hash as Death-Star+ would be an unimaginative letdown.

Anyway, it's easy to pick at the things that bothered me. But I did enjoy it and am glad they made it and are making more. But I really hope this is the spring-board to say goodbye to the old while building new things; not an ad nausea re-hash and 4 billion dollar cash in on our nostalgia.

Edited at 2015-12-23 03:59 pm (UTC)
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From:cyan_blue
Date:December 25th, 2015 07:57 pm (UTC)
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"But I really hope this is the spring-board to say goodbye to the old while building new things; not an ad nausea re-hash and 4 billion dollar cash in on our nostalgia."

Agreed - I hope they are done being so darn self-referential to old plotlines with Ep 7, and that 8 and 9 break new creative story ground.
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From:cyan_blue
Date:December 23rd, 2015 10:36 pm (UTC)
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My rating of TFA is mixed - there were some good scenes, and more strong female characters who weren't simply the one token female. But the plot was so damn self-referential to the prior movies, and I would like to have seen it break new ground in going further away from old plotlines.

So lots of us are speculating that Rey is Luke's daughter. If so, I'm musing on how Luke managed to lose hold of his obviously Force-strong daughter. And how Han and Leia managed not to know that they had a niece. I'm wondering if Rey was just conceived around the time that Ben/Kyo began to go astray, and so was hidden (in another desert planet, yay) so that she didn't get killed when Ben/Kyo killed other Jedi trainees of Luke's. Though that doesn't jibe well with her flashback of being ripped away as a little girl - but perhaps there were other trials in her life. And where is her mother? Anyway, thoughts.
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From:the_leewit
Date:December 26th, 2015 05:21 pm (UTC)
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I just can't see Luke breaking the promise to return.
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