The Watchtower of Destruction: The Ferrett's Journal - Late Night Blathering On Pick-Up Artists
February 25th, 2012
08:05 pm

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Late Night Blathering On Pick-Up Artists

On my drive out to Connecticut, I was listening to a Neil Strauss book on Pick-Up Artists.  I always find that sort of mentality bizarrely science-fictionesque; here are these nerds who’ve mastered the arts of neurolinguistic programming to get over their fear of women.  And like most good science-fictionly things, the core of the Pick-Up Artists rest at this bizarre nexus of scientific theory and culture and morality.

I couldn’t help but think of “peacocking” over the past two days, though.

The theory behind “peacocking” is that you want to dress in an outlandish manner of some sort – giving women an easy excuse to talk to you, if they want to.  All they have to do is comment upon your crazy tie, and wham, you can walk them down the lines of anchoring and negging into your boudoir.

The thing is, like much of the Pick-Up Artists’ theory, though, it’s absolutely true.  Because I am peacocking now, whether I think of it that way or not.  I’m wearing a slick hat, a bright Hawaiian shirt, and I have this elaborate henna all over my hand.

At least five women have started up conversations with me in the past thirty-six hours.

Now, it’s probably some coincidence that they’ve all been women, but the whole Pick-Up Artist thing makes me wonder whether I could have leveraged some of those tenuous connections into bedroom shenanigans instead of awkward small talk.  And the answer is: probably.  Not because their talking to me meant OH TAKE ME YOU PUDGY STUDMUFFIN, but because I’m reasonably confident in my chances if I’m feeling attractive and flirty and given an option to chat.

I don’t have a spectacular need, though.  It’s cool for me just to meet people and say hello and walk away.

I dunno.  The whole Pick-Up Artist thing strikes so many chords simply because I have had, by many men’s standards, a wildly successful sexual history, and a lot of what they say resonates as, “I do that!  Without thinking about it, but I do that!”  One of the main lessons of the PUA crowd is that women actually want to have crazy, no-strings sex a lot of the time, often just as badly as men, but there’s so many societal restrictions around what women should want that men wind up having to reassure women that they won’t think less of them.

And I think one of the reasons I’ve been as successful in quote-unquote “seducing” women as I have is that I don’t think less of anyone for having sex.  I think people should have as much sex or as little as they want, and I don’t think of women as slutty for desiring it.  And upon some PUA consideration, that attitude gets me a surprisingly long way.

(The other attitude is that I don’t care if we have sex.  I mean, it’d be nice, but unlike many so-called “nice guys,” if you just wanna hang around and talk, I like that just as much.  Unless a lot of guys, who view women as a disappointment if they don’t put out, which I find more than a little reprehensible.  Which is why I have a problem of thinking of “Hey, if you want, I’m cool, or we can just play dominoes” as “a seduction technique.”)

The Pick-Up Artist thing has a potential to be a way of giving lonely nerds a pathway to find out how to be comfortable with women – which it is, on some levels – but as usual, some idiots take it to extremes and start treating women as something to be conquered.  which is just masking another form of insecurity – let’s sex up everyone just to see if we can!

Meanwhile, I’m in a hotel room in Connecticut, working alone on a Saturday night.  Could I use some company?  Sure I could.  But it’s okay to be alone, guys.  All those other women won’t fill the empty loneliness inside.  Trust me on that one.

Cross-posted from Ferrett's Real Blog.

This entry has also been posted at http://theferrett.dreamwidth.org/194167.html. You can comment here, or comment there; makes no never-mind by me.

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(37 shouts of denial | Tell me I'm full of it)

Comments
 
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From:[info]asakiyume
Date:February 26th, 2012 01:13 am (UTC)
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Another thing I bet that you do, and that a good pick-up artist does, is make it clear that you're enjoying the company of the woman you're trying to pick up. That is a *very* big turn-on.
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From:[info]theferrett
Date:February 26th, 2012 01:24 am (UTC)
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I do actually do that. I tend to be effusive in my enjoyment of anyone's company.
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From:[info]theferrett
Date:February 26th, 2012 01:24 am (UTC)
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(Though I hadn't thought of that as a turn-on.)
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From:[info]asakiyume
Date:February 26th, 2012 01:30 am (UTC)
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Oh yes: nothing makes a person feel attractive and desirable like someone's obvious pleasure in their company--especially if it's no-strings-attached pleasure.
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From:[info]theferrett
Date:February 26th, 2012 01:47 am (UTC)
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That's good to know. But I like people. Lots.
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From:[info]little_ribbit
Date:February 26th, 2012 03:25 am (UTC)
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Yes, absolutely. I tend to be no-strings-attached in response, while also not ruling out some form of hookup. (I'm happily married with a couple secondaries, and not generally desperate for dates or hookups.) This sort of interaction is one of the things I LOVE about going to my local sci-fi convention (BayCon) and other local events.
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From:[info]kid_lit_fan
Date:February 28th, 2012 12:50 am (UTC)
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(Though I hadn't thought of that as a turn-on.)

That's probably what makes it work. A lot of would-be PUA's will come out and SAY "I am really enjoying your company!" in a way that feels rehearsed, and sometimes creepy. Reading that it is a PUA tactic made me nod and say "Oh, THAT's why so many men have come right out and said that." (In my head, I heard the Festrunk brothers saying "I am muchly enjoying your company. Now we go to your place and I may touch your beeg American breasts!")

It's like acting or singing or anything else. You can improve by going to school, but innate talent counts a lot more.



Edited at 2012-02-28 12:51 am (UTC)
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From:[info]miintikwa
Date:February 26th, 2012 01:17 am (UTC)
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The "nice guys" who think women are a disappointment if they don't put out aren't nice guys.

And I agree that the "peacocking" can be effective. I have a tattoo on my hand. And people comment. A lot more than I'd ever thought, of all age ranges. (I love when the kids comment. Kids are so cute.)

I am not sure if that's because I'm fairly approachable, if it's easier for people of both genders to approach women, or what. But it is true that having something "outlandish" can draw attention.

I also agree that it's ok to be alone. It's very hard to convince people of that, though. Particularly people who are lonely. I enjoy every second of time I get by myself, now, but when I was single and alone every night, it wasn't so much fun.
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From:[info]theferrett
Date:February 26th, 2012 01:25 am (UTC)
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Yeah, well, that's why I quoted the "nice guys." If you're looking to turn your time into a transaction, you're not nice at all.

I hope you're approachable! Some day I wish to approach you!
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From:[info]miintikwa
Date:February 26th, 2012 01:38 am (UTC)
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Yeah. Sadly, that attitude is way too common. I can't count the number of "friends" who dropped me like a hot potato after discovering that I wasn't going to sleep with them just because I'm poly. :/

Hee! I try to be! I have good days and bad days. But most of the time I'm happy to be approached. :)
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From:[info]jfs
Date:February 26th, 2012 04:44 pm (UTC)
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[info]divalion has a great article on "Nice Guys" vs. nice guys.
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From:[info]miintikwa
Date:February 26th, 2012 10:04 pm (UTC)
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That is an awesome post.
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From:[info]jfs
Date:February 26th, 2012 11:19 pm (UTC)
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Yup - she's written a few others that are definitely worth reading, but that one knocks it out of the ball park.
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From:[info]cislyn
Date:February 26th, 2012 02:08 am (UTC)
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When someone is comfortable and happy spending time alone that's a big turn-on for me. If you don't enjoy spending time with you, then I probably won't either. Plus, it means more when someone chooses to spend time with me if they like being alone - I'm not just a warm body filling up space so they won't be lonely. They're actively choosing to spend time with me because it is an enjoyable thing for them, rather than an alternative to void.

I hadn't given much thought to "peacocking", but you're right, it does work well as a means of passive conversation initiation. I tend to dress with at least one silly or noticeable thing on my person, and I am frequently approached by strangers who just want to chat - much more so now than in the summers when I don't have an excuse to wear a strawberry on my head, for instance. This may also be due to me being of short stature and cuddly demeanor, though. I'm kind of the definition of non-threatening.
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From:[info]particle_man6
Date:February 26th, 2012 02:17 am (UTC)
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I hope that you don't do "negging" instinctively. :)
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From:[info]theferrett
Date:February 26th, 2012 02:24 am (UTC)
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I do. I don't go out of my way to be mean, but if an attractive woman says something I disagree with, I'm right in there going, "No, seriously, that's crazy." which many guys tell you not to do, and I wouldn't advise doing it for everything to dismiss her opinions... But so many guys will agree and head-bob along with whatever a cutie says, that disagreeing strongly actually makes me different and hence more attractive.
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From:[info]firecat
Date:February 26th, 2012 03:05 am (UTC)
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I thought "negging" was making a negative comment about a woman's appearance, rather than about something she says.
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From:[info]particle_man6
Date:February 26th, 2012 07:27 am (UTC)
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Me too.
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From:[info]celandine13
Date:February 26th, 2012 12:00 pm (UTC)
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The spirit of the idea is that beautiful women get tired of being kowtowed to, and are intrigued by someone who treats them like a normal person instead of a goddess. Picture Humphrey Bogart -- he almost *never* takes note of the leading lady's beauty, he never flatters her, and he'll call her out on behavior he doesn't approve of.

It's kind of a human universal, actually. I've struggled with it myself. If you're a worshipful fangirl who can't work up the nerve to say Hi, you'll never get close to the person you admire.
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From:[info]firecat
Date:February 26th, 2012 07:32 pm (UTC)
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That makes sense, but it's not what I understand "negging" is.

http://www.thegarethjones.com/negging-youre-doing-it-wrong/

"Negging is a specific throwaway statement designed to take a woman off of the...pedestal by making her question her perfection and suffering brief insecurity. Nasty, I know. Yuck. This insecurity is supposed to link a feeling of inadequacy to her in her interactions with you, so that you will hold the more secure and powerful frame in the conversation."
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From:[info]little_ribbit
Date:February 26th, 2012 03:29 am (UTC)
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I think disagreeing with something she says is pretty distinct from negging. You're not subtly insulting her to lower her self esteem or make her self-conscious.
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From:[info]aiela
Date:February 26th, 2012 04:30 am (UTC)
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Yeah, that's not what I understand negging to mean at all.
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From:[info]virginia_fell
Date:February 26th, 2012 10:28 am (UTC)
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As other commenters have mentioned, merely being willing to be honest with a woman about when you disagree with her is very different from trying to use little conversational punishments to get her locked in a variable interval reinforcement/punishment cycle that leaves her chasing your approval (which you will obviously bestow with your penis in an appropriately manly fashion).

There's nothing essentially manipulative or controlling about just being honest. There is if you're trying to condition her to accept your standards for her behavior. In a sense, that conditioning is geared toward forcing the woman to do precisely the thing you're stating you don't want to do yourself--adjust her views and behavior and standards and boundaries to more closely conform to someone else's just because there might be potential for sex there.
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From:[info]kid_lit_fan
Date:February 28th, 2012 12:59 am (UTC)
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As someone who used to be, evidently, a cutie, I can tell you that I do not respect people who head-nod at anything I say. Actually, it goes along with genuinely enjoying my company; there's a point where I could tell that head-nodding wasn't at all related to anything my breasts were saying. I would say insane things like "actually, t, I think we should just shoot all the homeless people" to see if I kept getting head-nods. If I did, then this was NOT someone who was actually listening to me.
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From:[info]tormentedartist
Date:February 26th, 2012 03:10 am (UTC)
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All those other women won’t fill the empty loneliness inside. Trust me on that one.

Yeah, but would you rather be lonely AND starved for sex. Or just lonely?
From:[info]anonymousalex
Date:February 26th, 2012 05:40 am (UTC)
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Lonely AND starved for sex. No, really. For the same reason that I'd rather be hungry than eat something that's just going to make me nauseous.

-Alex
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From:[info]perich
Date:February 26th, 2012 06:32 pm (UTC)

more than once

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Having been lonely and then had sex with someone I wasn't into: lonely and starved for sex. At least then I'm only screwing up my head.
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From:[info]singingdragon
Date:February 26th, 2012 08:08 pm (UTC)
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Having sex with another person is nice and all, but you should be able to do it by yourself well enough that you're not "starved." Having to rely on another person for fulfilment in any arena, including sex, is a good way to become unattractively desperate.
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From:[info]denyer
Date:February 26th, 2012 02:36 pm (UTC)
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Other people won't fill a void, full stop, if people don't actually like themselves.
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From:[info]grenacia
Date:February 26th, 2012 04:49 pm (UTC)
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I wonder how differently "peacocking" effects the approachability of men vs. women.

Also, this makes me think of one thing I have marveled about. I have walked through all sorts of neighborhoods at all sorts of times in all sorts of different outfits (normal, slutty, sci-fi costumes) and I think I've gotten hit on the most when I'm dressed up in weird sci-fi costumes. This makes some sense at a sci-fi convention, but I've also been hit on a lot just walking home from a convention through downtown on a weekend afternoon, by people who have absolutely no idea what I'm dressed up as. So I guess that could be peacocking in action.
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From:[info]voiceofanangel
Date:February 26th, 2012 05:39 pm (UTC)
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*biiiig hugs* We should do coffee again sometime soon - although in the evening this time, since I'm now working office hours.
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From:[info]perich
Date:February 26th, 2012 06:35 pm (UTC)
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The Pick-Up Artist thing has a potential to be a way of giving lonely nerds a pathway to find out how to be comfortable with women – which it is, on some levels

I think I made a similar comment last time you brought up PUA, but: it's not "potential." It already is that thing. The students of PUA are, by and large, lonely nerds. You don't need to worry about how nerds can discover PUA or how PUA can market itself to nerds. That bridge has been crossed.
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From:[info]heldc
Date:February 26th, 2012 07:05 pm (UTC)
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Yeah, but it's a LOT easier to be alone for the weekend when you know you've got GiniSnuggles at home. When all you've got is alone, anything that offers togetherness even for a little while is a LOT more appealing.
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From:[info]adam_0oo
Date:February 27th, 2012 01:45 am (UTC)
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Yeah, I mean, when I am talking to a new girl at a party I look for something she does or is wearing to have an in. I have a mohawk now or often wear interesting t-shirts, so it helps other people talk to me. So, these things work. That guy with the show is just so douchey about it.
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From:[info]tigrkittn
Date:February 27th, 2012 02:35 am (UTC)
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The books and classes on How To Pick Up Women make me unbearably paranoid, in theory. I say "in theory" because I've never had a situation where I felt as if anyone was using techniques on me- I haven't been "picked up"/hit on in about twenty-five years - but the idea that that sort of creepy, predatory attitude is out there to such a degree that it's getting press is just... *twitches, crosses arms and legs*
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From:[info]corvaxgirl
Date:February 28th, 2012 01:27 am (UTC)
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If you read the books though then you'll know the techniques and know if someone is trying to use them on you :)

I found reading about those tactics helped me figure out how to approach people, which is something that's always hard for me.
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From:[info]tigrkittn
Date:February 28th, 2012 01:36 am (UTC)
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As I mentioned, I don't have to worry about anyone actually trying to use the techniques on me- it's just the idea of guys being creepy.... and I'd be too nervous to use the techniques to talk to people, as you said, because I'd be afraid they'd read the books and that would make me the creepy one!
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