I also want to use the Martin Luther icon because he did No Wrong (TM). His writings about how Jews should be driven from Germany while their homes burned reminds me of Barack's pleas for change and hope.

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BWAH HAH HAH.

Win.

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Does my prize involve cheesecake pictures...;)?

Oh, who am I kidding? I will take my own and send 'em to you!

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Oh, could I see those writings?

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I should think you could find them. They gained more infamy when the Nazis checked 'em out of their local library during WWII...

Martin Luther was semi-tolerant of the Jews at first so that he could convince them to convert. That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew is early enough so that it won't push all manner of buttons for a modern reader. On the Jews and Their Lies indicates that Luther failed when it came to his conversion attempts. And that the dude holds a grudge.

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I had a several hour long brainfart, because I was thinking of the big picture I saw and the wrong person. This is just a sign I really need to stop rushing when I read stuff.

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I was very confused for a minute there. All I could think was "MLK was anti-semitic?"

...Proving once again that you should never name your children after great reformers of the past, because the minute they become great reformers themselves you're going to confuse the hell out of middle America.

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Confusing the hell out of middle America: feature, not bug.

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Ecellent. You win this thread!

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And I was just confused until now. *doh*

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Hey, it just says "Community Organizer." It doesn't say "for a good cause"! ;-)

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Wait.. but reading this would detract from my ability to use my free time to Google "Sarah Palin Nude" and "Sarah Palin Lesbian Porn."

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Mmm, I love me some cheapening of achievements to score political points. WTG, LJ.

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What else are political campaigns besides cheapening the achievements of one's opponent?

That's a fully symmetrical observation, of course.

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In this case, I wasn't talking about cheapening Obama.

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Neither was I.

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Hmmm, Well, they're almost all activists, I wouldn't classify them all as community organizers. I don't know what community Princess Diana organized or John Lennon for that matter.

(I quibble with including Jesus because if anything he was probably betrayed because he *was not* an activist but instead preached a message of the living a good life *now* with the hope of living in a better society later.)

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Princess Diana was very active in the artistic community, and helped support ballet in particular. There was also her anti-land mine work, and her work with people with AIDS (back before that was considered cool to do.) That enough communities for you?

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I don't really consider lending your name to a good cause the same thing as being a community organizer. She just showed up, looked concerned for the cameras and went back to her life.

I'm not saying she didn't have compassion or that she wasn't passionate about her pet causes but when you compare a high strung socialite to Dorothy Day or The Dali Lama she falls short.

If I thought about it for 15 minutes I bet I could come up with 5 people who fit that description more aptly than she does.

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John Lennon is one of the biggest advocates for Peace in our time. If you look into his biography from the late 60's through mid 70's its undeniable what he gave to the Peace movement and getting people involved with it. There is way too much for a comment alone to cover it. He "organized" so well with people that the US Government wanted his ass thrown out, either legally or illegally of the US.

And what planet have you been on that you did not hear about Diana's work with AIDS patients and landmines?

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Please read my comment above. These were nice people (I assume seeing as how I never new either one of them) and I'm sure they had the best of intentions but when you compare them to people like Aung San Suu Kyi or Wilma Mankiller? While loaning your name and face to the plight of others is admirable, it doesn't make you a community organizer. (BTW: You do know that some of her work was carried out because she wanted to impress a doctor she was interested it, right? I think the ends justifies the means in this case but there was certainly more on her mind than helping people in that case.)

Men like Pete Seeger and The Gutheries (Woody and Arlo) were activists and community organizers, John Lennon was a talented musician, emotional wreck sensitive man who wrote a several songs about the possibility of a better world while living in the lap of decadent luxury in an building most of us couldn't set foot in the lobby of.

You can be a nice guy but that in and of itself doesn't make one a community organizer.

I'm not going to get snippy and insult you by implying that you are ignorant of current events of the last 30ish years. We seem to be about the same age so I will assume that you lived through the same events that I did. I will also say that this is likely a case of shaking hands and agreeing to disagree.

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Evidently since you didn't know enough about John Lennon but thought he was a nice person and an emotional wreck? Well you might be an emotional wreck too if you saw your mother killed in front of you. And well, Christ, he lived with YOKO ONO for god's sake - thats enough to really make you a wreck. (and thats only mean to be partly funny... I admire the man, love his work but still can't figure out what in the world he saw in that woman...)

As far as Diana just "impressing a doctor" I'm sure that her children who are carrying out her legacy love hearing that that is the only reason she was involved. It sounds like the same garbage that the Royal Family had her killed. Its pure tabloid papparazi BS.

The REASON that we are referring to them as Community Organizers is that they took the Community of the WORLD, used their celebrity to some GOOD (something so rare) and rallied people together who without a well known voice would have been left behind. Did anyone really know how bad the land mine problem was until Diana made sure that we did? She ORGANIZED A COMMUNITY of World Members to a cause. A GOOD Cause. That's what her legacy is.

And I too shall shake your hand, wish you a pleasant evening and bid you well.

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Inspired choice of Geronimo.

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Am I the only person who found Palin's sniping on-target? Every single person in that icon list did something else that they were famous for. The fact that they happened to be 'community organisers' has less than nothing to do with that, nor does their being community organisers automatically create responsibility for that title.

Community organiser is a nice feel-good position. You volunteer for something, and if it goes tits-up, then some people are inconvenienced. As for being a Mayor, if that goes tits-up, you pretty much royally shaft an entire city full of people. Yes, I totally see how Palin's mayoral experience is completely irrelevant now. And obviously community organisers must have equal, if not more, responsibility. Thank you for this great insight.

(I'm glad to see this election has started off with the usual cross-party sniping. Change, what's that?)

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The conservatives who dismissed him as just a community organizer made a mistake because it left them open to a seemingly clever tactic like this. However, people sympathetic to Obama made a mistake in that just because Obama is a community organizer, it doesn't necessarily follow that his accomplishments as a community organizer are as significant as the people in these LJ icons. Harding, Nixon, and Carter are all U.S. presidents, but it doesn't follow that their administrations were as successful as other administrations just because they're all presidents. In this case, the Ferrett seems to be letting his enthusiasm for Obama interfere with his ability to see the weakness in this argument of "Obama is a community organizer therefore he is as impressive as all these other organizers and their accomplishments."

Can somebody tell us what Obama did as a community organizer? Were his accomplishments significant and do they include experience that would make him a successful president?

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http://www.dcpincorp.org/

He was a large part of that. REally expanded it.

Was a consultant for this group:
http://www.gamaliel.org/default.htm

Organized Project Vote! in Chicago (registered a lot of people to vote and was a successful fundraiser)

Was on the board of this:
http://www.publicallies.org/site/c.liKUL3PNLvF/b.2634379/k.BF91/Home.htm

And this (who worked with him on the above DCP project)
http://www.woodsfund.org/

I did this over the phone with someone so you might want to recheck but he lives in Chicago and has been following this.

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Were his accomplishments significant and do they include experience that would make him a successful president?

It also doesn't follow that experience will make you a successful president.

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Well, no, nothing is 100% Having experience in certain areas can be an indicator that a candidate might be more likely to be successful as a president. Beyond a certain point, it's a crap shoot.

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She wasn't saying that Obama didn't do anything during his time as a community organizer; she said that community organizers don't actually do anything.

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Ah! Then she was wrong about community organizers don't actually do anything. However, it still doesn't automatically follow that because a person is a community organizer that their achievements are equal to all other community organizers.

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What kind of community organizations have you dealt with? People are inconvenienced? Is that really it? In a way, many community organizations do more than a small city does, and they have less resources than a mayor does. A community organizer is a lot more than someone who volunteers to stuff envelopes. Right off the top of my head if one of the organizations went tits up in my small city of less than 60 thousand, a large number of disabled people would be homeless. Another group of disabled families would be left in the lurch for therapy and other care. Foster children would be left in the lurch, too.

ANother agency going under would mean a lot of people going hungry.

Back in NYC, one agency was responsible for a lot of the zoning issues and environmental issues in the area. Another one kept the fishing fleet going. Others kept the streets safe (something the NYPD can't always do).

Another one I could think of would mean limited transportation for seniors. Another would be the end of sliding scale mental health. Another would be the only people who handle the heating program in the area. I keep thinking of most of the social services in the area and most of them are NOT run by the mayor AT ALL. (And honestly it isn't the mayor that runs the city, it is the city manager that runs it.)

If you found her sniping on target, you probably have never volunteered with any community organizations or realized you were the recipient of their services.

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oh come now, Ferrett. Have these individuals ever had to make REAL Decisions?

And can they field dress a moose?

I'm gawking Lennon.

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