a) It's NOT okay to want someone based on appearance, whether or not you act on this impulse

It's perfectly fine to want someone based on appearance -- that's just human nature -- but no, it is NOT okay to ACT on this impulse ALONE, because then you're wanting just the BODY, not the PERSON. That is the definition of objectification. You're turning a thinking, reasoning person, just like you, into an interchangeable object.

b) It's NOT okay to ask someone if you can touch them in any way if you don't know them.

That is exactly what I am saying. You have NO right to touch me if you don't know me, you have NO right to ASK to touch me if you don't know me. In fact, I can't believe that you would think it's reasonable to do so.

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A) Okay, yup, got ya and agree with you. Just wanted to clarify, because saying someone is not allowed to want is something that's impossible to live up to.

However, acting on the impulse of "she's pretty" by walking up to that person and getting to know them would be initially acting on the want alone. That might be cutting hairs, but please understand that acting on that want impulse doesn't automatically equate to something horrible.

B) "Listen, I just want you to know that I think what you did over there was really awesome. Can I shake your hand?"

It's definitely not what Ferrett's talking about here, but I've used that phrase before, having never known the person I was talking to. Also "Do you need a hug?"

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Do you really ask to hug strangers? If a stranger asked to hug me -- well, in the context of a con, I'd politely say no, but I would be thinking they were kinda skeevy.

Do you really think shaking hands is the equivalent of fondling boobs? I don't think so.

You are right, trying to meet someone on the basis of "she's pretty" is perfectly reasonable. But once you say "Hello", you usually have to follow up by talking to her and getting her interested in you as a person, so she will allow you to get to know her as a person, and once you do, if there's mutual consent, you can fondle each other all you want.

I'm not even saying this has to be a six-month process. I've had full-tilt sex with people I've met that same day, but not before we've had good, chemistry-filled conversation first.

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You're implying that you're weak and need to be protected both from desire and the truth. That sucks.

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No, I'm not implying it, you're inferring it.

"Protected from desire and truth"? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I'll answer what I can, and you can clarify what you mean in your reply, and then I'll answer better.

First, I do not need to "be protected" by anyone but myself. I protect myself by asserting my dignity and autonomy as a human being. "From desire"? Desire is fine; invasion of my personal space is not. Desire me all you want, just don't presume that your attention is wanted. If you want to inform me of your admiration, please take the time to get to know me first. "Hi, I saw you at the dealer's table. I was looking at that same piece. Did you go to his signing?" Such conversational gambits are perfectly socially acceptable. Most people at cons, including me, are happy to make new friends. If you get to know me, you may actually like me, and I may actually like you, and you never know, you may get to do more than touch my boobs -- AFTER we get to know each other.

"From truth"? That I don't get at all. The truth that someone wants to touch my boobs? I know people want to touch my boobs; you don't have to tell me, thanks. If I want you to touch my boobs, be assured I am capable of letting you know it.

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You want to be dealt social engagements that please you before you're willing to learn of the desire that predated them. That's exactly what I'm saying, and it's not my private, sexist inference. I may not want your attention, and I'd expect you to respect that when you learned it, but I cannot fathom being offended that you should inform me of it.

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You want to be dealt social engagements that please you before you're willing to learn of the desire that predated them.

Yes. Yes I do. I want to know you're interested in me as a person AS WELL AS a body.

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Right. You want to know something that may be at odds with reality, or you'd prefer to not know at all.

That's what I mean by you wanting protection from truth.

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Well yes, I suppose so. If the truth is that you don't care enough about polite human interaction to get to know me as a person, I really don't give a damn what you say about anything. So go ahead, say anything you want, and I'll just ignore you, okay?

Or perhaps I'll politely request to kick you in the balls.
http://misia.livejournal.com/1055120.html

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