theferrett: Bizarre

The Ferrett (

theferrett) wrote,
@ 2008-03-22 23:24:00

Bizarre
I've pretty much given up drinking lately. It's not that I'm against drinking, it's just that it hasn't interested me.

But over the past week, I've started sipping a shot of good whiskey (with a splash of water to open up the taste) before I go to bed. And here I am, doing it again.

This is a little odd, because it's an expensive habit. These are $60 bottle scotches. And frankly, though I tried hard to be all classy and exotic once upon a time, these days I've pretty much consigned myself to being eternally lowbrow. Yet here I am, a crystal glass of 16-year-old Glenlivet Nadurra in my hand, drinking for nothing but the taste.

I feel oddly suffused for a moment, as though I have become a grown-up with grand tastes. I'm not quite sure how the punk, mosh-pit addict who once wanted to fuck the state feels about this.

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	weds 2008-03-23 03:28 am UTC (link)
	You can totally fuck the state on fine whiskies. You're just doing it with more style than you would be if you were fucking the state whilst hammered to the slosh on Carling. (Reply to this)

	vrax 2008-03-23 03:38 am UTC (link)
	Like he can finally afford better than beer? And he can do it while working from home for a kickass boss who is abso-fuckin-lutley not .... THE MAN! Although, amusing image. Pete and all. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	harper_knight 2008-03-23 06:51 am UTC (link)
	most punk, mosh-pit addicts wouldn't drink much besides beer and cheap vodka and bourbon if they had the choice. I've seen people pour a glass of $80 scotch down the sink cos supposedly it was 'shit' and ask for a beer. Some people don't know a good boozeahol when it's staring them in the face. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	bodybag_pilgrim 2008-03-23 03:46 am UTC (link)
	2007, I had my first birthday not spent with a lover or family. My first birthday where organisation of a shindig was all on me, and where the whole thing worked to my whim. The night before, I sat up enjoying myself. At five to midnight, I poured myself two fingers of Talisker. At midnight, I began to drink. It's a tradition I'll keep regardless of company, I think. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	darthparadox 2008-03-24 02:44 am UTC (link)
	Mmm, Talisker. Good taste. (Reply to this)(Parent)

jojomojo
2008-03-23 03:55 am UTC (link)

Surely your inhabitance of that interesting-sounding cocktail lounge place militates against your being eternally lowbrow. :)

I am, I sadly admit, cheap. I don't go above $25 or so, wherein lies the cheapest of the single malts. I did buy a fancy bottle of whisky for my dad's 60th birthday and he let me try some when I visited though...very, very nice stuff.

You could make your own whisky? Then you could not only fuck the state, but drink the results of your fucking.

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	gfish 2008-03-23 04:24 am UTC (link)
	Eh, the punk sounds like a much less interesting person. (Reply to this)

	kisekinotenshi 2008-03-23 05:06 am UTC (link)
	I've had this feeling before, but more about food than alcohol. Of course, I grew up as a snob whose parents only drank wine, so I kind of feel dirty when I drink beer... Even though it's good beer. But as far as food, it's interesting to me that I'd rather have fresh vegetables and saffron rice for a meal than Spaghettios these days. (Reply to this)

montykins
2008-03-23 05:33 am UTC (link)

That's an aspect of drinking I just don't get. And I freely admit that the fault is mine, but I see "sipping whiskey before bed" as about the same thing as "what bums do with Wild Turkey". The taste can be as delicate and subtle as you like; isn't it still basically just booze?

It's the same reason I can't get impressed when people go on about, say, Guinness. It's just beer! Beer is something that gets consumed by the kegful at colleges and sports bars, not something that counts as "gourmet" or "cuisine"!

Perhaps I'd understand if I could stand to drink any of it myself. But my "palate" (such as it is) is repelled by pretty much everything from wine coolers to hundred-year-old brandy. That's why I make a point of emphasizing that I'm the one who doesn't "get it". Still -- a shot of whiskey before bed doesn't sound like "a grown-up with grand tastes" to me. It sounds like a shot of whiskey before bed.

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kisekinotenshi
2008-03-23 05:40 am UTC (link)

I would say to this, do you have certain tastes when it comes to food? I would say that comparing a fresh, ripe pomegranate to overly processed, sugar-added applesauce is about on par to comparing Guinness to Miller Lite. They're both fruit, right? I mean, why would you go one about why a certain fruit tastes good?

Please understand, I'm not attacking your dislike of alcohol, I'm simply saying that maybe comparing it to something that you don't find repellant will help you understand it better.

Personally, I'd rather have a chocolate truffle before bed than a Hershey's kiss. But maybe that's just me. XD

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montykins
2008-03-23 05:51 am UTC (link)

I would say that comparing a fresh, ripe pomegranate to overly processed, sugar-added applesauce is about on par to comparing Guinness to Miller Lite. They're both fruit, right? I mean, why would you go one about why a certain fruit tastes good?

Sure, except I've tasted both Guinness and Miller Lite, and they both taste the same to me: awful. It's not theoretical; I've tasted both, and to me, they're pretty much the same thing. Like I say, the fault is clearly with my palate.

Come to think of it, I can't stand pomegranates either, although I think that's a different issue.

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	bustylis 2008-03-23 06:54 am UTC (link)
	Some people do actually like the taste of alcohol. It's sharp, bitter, cheek-pinching, and gut-fluttering, but it's a certain firing of nerve endings that can become pleasant, especially when complemented by other flavors. (The bitter fruitiness of hops, for example, or bitter, dark chocolate flavors in Guinness.) (Reply to this)(Parent)

kisekinotenshi
2008-03-23 07:09 am UTC (link)

But that's kind of my point. Even if you can't understand why people like any alcohol, you can try to understand why they make differentiations based on things you actually do like, such as fruit. Substitute a pomegranate for any fruit you may particularly like. So then whenever someone says "blah blah this alcohol versus this alcohol" you can mentally go "okay, so it's like they're comparing this food I like to this other food I don't like as much, now I'm on the same mental playing field as them."

I'm just saying that you can try to understand, in an instance like this, why there's a differentiation. Maybe you don't want to understand, but I'm saying you could try if you wanted to. Maybe that's just my personal feelings talking, though, since I try to understand everything I possibly can.

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	apocalypse_0 2008-03-23 09:04 am UTC (link)
	It is truly a pity that you cannot distinguish between fine drink and piss water. Because, for the rest of us, there's something very nice about a good bottle of beer, wine, or whiskey - especially when it complements food. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	theferrett 2008-03-23 02:05 pm UTC (link)
	Have you tasted them side by side? I don't deny they'll taste awful to you; what I'm saying is that there's a good chance they'll taste awful in different ways. (Reply to this)(Parent)

apocalypse_0
2008-03-23 09:14 am UTC (link)

Suppose I have 3 glasses: ginger ale, apple juice and dog piss. Surely, you'd be able to taste the difference between those three, right? Sure, they're all basically clear yellow liquids, but I think you'd be able to tell the difference and express a preference based on that.

Beer is the same way. You can (and probably should) turn your nose up a keg beer. But a hand-crafted microbrew can often be exceedingly good. A thick, oatmeal stout is a joy to drink at the proper temperature.

Anyhow, if you can understand the difference between ginger ale, apple juice, and piss, or the difference between ginger ale and root beer, then you can understand the difference between different kinds and brands of beer.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

theferrett
2008-03-23 02:03 pm UTC (link)

The best way I can put it is, can you sense a difference between a McDonald's hamburger and a good, home-cooked patty from a barbecue on a fresh bun? To a vegetarian who is a vegetarian because they can't stand the taste of meat, all they might taste would be salt and meat - but to those who enjoy the taste, there are realms of difference that are easily picked up on.

There's a difference between a good whiskey and a bad whiskey, and I say this as a skeptical snob. (I have yet to be convinced of a vast difference between a mid-tier and an upper-tier vodka, or a grand rum differential.) I wouldn't do this with a ten-dollar whiskey. Hell, there is a major difference among good whiskies (my wife won't drink Tallisker, I love it).

Also, you're very wrong on beer, or at least your comparison. There's a big difference in almost every level between Guinness and what gets consumed at sporting events - from color, consistency, carbonation level, denseness of taste, and so forth. Take a taste of Budweiser and a taste of Guinness and even if you don't like beer because you're overwhelmed by alcohol, I can almost guarantee that you will sense a dramatic difference.

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montykins
2008-03-23 07:13 pm UTC (link)

Okay, here's something I find interesting. First: here are the phrases I used in my comments that I thought would indicate that I was aware that not onyl was I in the minority, I knew perfectly well that I was wrong.

"That's an aspect of drinking I just don't get."

"I freely admit that the fault is mine"

"Perhaps I'd understand if I could stand to drink any of it myself."

"That's why I make a point of emphasizing that I'm the one who doesn't "get it"."

In my second comment, I added this: "Like I say, the fault is clearly with my palate."

However, these disclaimers did not do the trick, because my post generated a number of posts with really remarkably condescending phrases like "Some people do actually like the taste of alcohol."

They also, incidentally, generated posts with nearly identical content. I have been instructed to compare alcohol to "pomegranates vs. apple sauce", "ginger ale, apple juice, vs. dog piss", "McDonald's hamburger vs. home-cooked" and "A shag before bed vs. good sex." Here's where all of these comparisons fall down:

Ferrett: "I like drinking fine whiskey!"
Me: "See, I can't stand fine whiskey anymore than I can stand rotgut. As a result, the whole idea still sounds weird to me, even though it's widely culturally accepted and I realize that for you, there is a distinct difference in taste."
Everyone: "Let me explain the concept of 'things tasting different' to you."

This may sound shocking to everyone who decided to lecture me, but I know that things taste differently. But when you're talking about whiskey, I have actual personal experience which makes it viscerally hard for me to identify with. Which is all I said to begin with.

Now, about your specific comment:

Also, you're very wrong on beer, or at least your comparison. There's a big difference in almost every level between Guinness and what gets consumed at sporting events - from color, consistency, carbonation level, denseness of taste, and so forth. Take a taste of Budweiser and a taste of Guinness and even if you don't like beer because you're overwhelmed by alcohol, I can almost guarantee that you will sense a dramatic difference.

Believe it or not, I was not lying. To me, those beers taste the same: "Sip, gag, choke, spit, rinse mouth out with water". There's no time for swirling or savoring because my mouth rejects the whole thing. Now, before you tell me again about how I'm "very wrong" about this, I want you to look very carefully at the number of times I've used the phrase "to me", frequently in italics.

Edited at 2008-03-23 07:14 pm UTC

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theferrett
2008-03-23 07:23 pm UTC (link)

And I understand that. That's why I said, "You're very wrong on beer, or at least your comparison." And also why I asked whether you've ever tried them side by side - as I said in a later comment, they may be awful, but they're most likely a different kind of awful, and I was curious to see whether you'd experienced that.

Which, to be honest,you still haven't answered. I know I can't stand the taste of vegetables, and I gag whenever I try brussels sprouts... But the fact that I gag when I try brussels sprouts and I gag when I eat bell peppers doesn't mean that they're identical experiences. Which is all others have said.

And even so, I acknowledged that it may not be true for you. I very specifically used the word "almost" when I discussed you tasting a difference.

I also don't pay attention to cars. To me, a car is a thing with four wheels to get me from place to place. But I wouldn't say, even with additives, "It's just a car! Cars are something that get people from place to place, not something that counts as 'a luxury' or 'comfort'!" Because I'd understand that even though *I* don't perceive there is a difference, there is one to those who care.

If you'd put the "To me" in front of that particular statement, then it wouldn't have invited the comments you did trying to explain it to you in quite the same way.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	I agree with this comment. kisekinotenshi 2008-03-23 10:56 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, this is kind of what I was failing at saying. It seemed to me that you were saying that you didn't understand why anyone bothered to claim that there was a difference, just because you couldn't tell there was one. I see now that your original intent was not to imply that. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. (Reply to this)(Parent)

montykins
2008-03-24 02:08 am UTC (link)

Which, to be honest,you still haven't answered.

I don't think I've had specifically Miller Lite. In my life, I've had a mouthful of probably ten different types of beer, and they all tasted identically foul to me. But I don't see why that's hard to believe; if you only had a bite of chocolate once every three years, even if you liked it, I don't think you'd be able to compare it.

When I tried Guinness, I did not try it at the same time as another beer. I think when I tried Budweiser (or some similar "standard" beer; it could easily have been Coors or something), I also tried a Stout of some sort, and I couldn't tell a difference. But the beer's in my mouth such a short time, you can't really rely on that, you know? It's not a proper "tasting experience", if you will. I'm not concentrating on the taste so much as I am spitting it out.

If you'd put the "To me" in front of that particular statement, then it wouldn't have invited the comments you did trying to explain it to you in quite the same way.

Probably. But (and I know you've noticed this with your own posts), sometimes you can have all the disclaimers in the world, and people will just skip right past them. In this case, I feel like my post was 40% disclaimers, including explicit acknowledgements that I was wrong, but people still stampeded to lecture me. Effective disclaimers are hard!

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theferrett
2008-03-24 02:11 am UTC (link)

But the beer's in my mouth such a short time, you can't really rely on that, you know? It's not a proper "tasting experience", if you will. I'm not concentrating on the taste so much as I am spitting it out.

I think if you did, you'd see a difference. I also don't think it'd be worth your time, since you'd be comparing two flavors of suck, but it might be an interesting experiment for a slow day.

Effective disclaimers are hard!

This is why I have sympathy for you. I know you tried really hard to make it clear, and it still came off wrong. And Christ, I botch it all the time.

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bustylis
2008-03-24 12:53 am UTC (link)

As condescending as this?

Beer is something that gets consumed by the kegful at colleges and sports bars, not something that counts as "gourmet" or "cuisine"!

The taste can be as delicate and subtle as you like; isn't it still basically just booze?

You jumped in with 'To me alcohol tastes gross I can't understand why anyone would ever drink it' and then get offended when the answer is 'Well, we like it.'

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montykins
2008-03-24 01:57 am UTC (link)

when the answer is 'Well, we like it.'

I disagree that that's what the answer actually was. I think the answer was a condescending lecture on how sometimes, things taste different. Strike that; the answer was several identical lectures on how sometimes, things taste different. I also like the part where you excerpted practically the only sentence where I didn't say "I realize I'm wrong here". Nice job!

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denyer
2008-03-23 06:14 pm UTC (link)

a shot of whiskey before bed doesn't sound like "a grown-up with grand tastes" to me. It sounds like a shot of whiskey before bed.

Equally, "a shag before bed" doesn't do much justice to good sex with someone you care about and any additional trappings that might please.

The taste can be as delicate and subtle as you like; isn't it still basically just booze?

Air's air, whether you're down a coal-mine or walking through the Tatra mountains. There's other stuff mixed in with the air, just as there's other stuff mixed in with the ethanol.

not something that counts as "gourmet" or "cuisine"!

I'm generally of the opinion that both labels are bollocks; there's stuff I really like the taste of and stuff I don't like, or like less. Where or when other people tend to consume the stuff is of little meaning.

I can usually tell the difference between pubs that don't bother to clean their pipes or serve stout well, though, regardless of what the bar area looks like.

We all tend to be dismissive of criteria that don't interest us, such as fashion, sport or interior decorating. 'S just the way people are.

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mystic_savage
2008-03-23 07:29 am UTC (link)

I know that kind of moment. I've become a person who really appreciates a sheet with a high thread count. There's that moment of aaahhhhh when I slip into a bed with really expensive, really soft sheets, and though I'll buy all of my clothes at garage sales and Value Village, I'm a big snob when it comes to sheets. There is that moment of suffusion, of utter comfort that goes beyond just the moment of the senses and extends to history and culture and the semiotics of slipping in between expensive soft cotton sheets. And then there is that moment of realization that wow, I'm the same person who gave up everything I owned that I couldn't fit into two suitcases when I moved to Washington state. And then there's that bit of bemusement as I try to reconcile the two (along with --and this is probably just me-- a tiny bit of guilt about indulging in the luxury). So yeah. Yours is whiskey, mine is sheets. And welcome to (early) middle-age.

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	iapetus11 2008-03-23 08:48 am UTC (link)
	Ah man, now you're talking to me. Whisky to my family is a social thing - to be enjoyed with loved ones at the end of a night - so I don't often drink alone. That said I have a couple of bottles of good stuff in the cupboard for when I want to treat myself. As for fucking the state, you're just going to have to tell yourself that the state strongly disapproves of fine whiskies. (Reply to this)

	apocalypse_0 2008-03-23 08:59 am UTC (link)
	A nice, smooth whiskey is a great way to loosen up. BTW, if you like a smooth Scotch, Blue Label is quite good. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	stone_ 2008-03-23 09:44 am UTC (link)
	Overpriced and overhyped. It's ok, but you can get something that tastes better for a quarter of the price. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	apocalypse_0 2008-03-24 07:12 am UTC (link)
	No doubt, Blue Label is a pricey blend, but it is very smooth. And yes, Green is probably a better value. But JW Blue is just so smooth, you can drink it straight up - no need to cut it. For pure taste, single-malt is better. I'm a bit partial to MacCallan and Dalwhinnie, but I'll drink Glenfiddich and Glen Devron if the mood strikes. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	roadnotes 2008-03-23 12:34 pm UTC (link)
	For me, it also comes when I'm drinking the whiskey, or tequila, or rye, in an appropriate glass, one that allows the flavors to come out. Suddenly it's "Yes, I'm a grown-up! Fuck, when did that happen?" (Reply to this)

	xforge 2008-03-23 01:36 pm UTC (link)
	I have a bottle of Bowmore that I bought years and years and years ago at the duty-free shops in Scotland. I'm gonna open it this fall in celebration of my being 100% out of debt. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	xforge 2008-03-23 01:37 pm UTC (link)
	p.s. my "day to day" bedtime sipping is a blended Scotch like J&B or Dewars, which are quite nice. I do that once a week or so. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ijk 2008-03-23 03:48 pm UTC (link)
	We mature ... and that's not such a bad thing ;) The only drawback to being able to appreciate "the finer things" is that anything less seems lacking. (Reply to this)(Thread)

terpsichoros
2008-03-23 07:31 pm UTC (link)

I'm only now beginning to get that way about chocolate. I really, really enjoy high-quality premium chocolates - I recently hosted a chocolate-tasting party for a few of my friends.

But I can still gorge myself on m&ms or Snickers or Cadbury Mini-eggs. (Especially Cadbury Mini-Eggs, which go on sale tomorrow.)

Only recently, I've lost my taste for some of the standard junk-chocolate bars, something like 15 years after I discovered the good stuff.

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kilbia
2008-03-24 08:56 pm UTC (link)

Heh...I started becoming a chocolate snob when I was about eight or nine years old. That's when I figured out I wasn't all that crazy about the Palmer confections that were so ubiquitous at Christmas and Easter. They said they were chocolate, but they didn't taste as chocolaty as Hershey or M&M/Mars candy.

Since I was a child, I still ate them because hey, they were candy and not licorice- or cherry-flavored, but after I got too old to get Easter baskets, I stopped eating Palmer confections. (Except for this past weekend, because a friend had given me a Palmer penguin for Christmas and we decided to "sacrifice" it over Easter weekend.)

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	rbradakis 2008-03-23 04:05 pm UTC (link)
	And that Nadurra is quite tasty. I am a man with a similar taste for good drinks, but I've always been a snob when it comes to food and drink. Because why waste my time on things that aren't the best I can manage? (Reply to this)

	usafpa 2008-03-23 04:27 pm UTC (link)
	Is the Ferret growing up? Developing expensive taste for fine items? Don't worry, you can still be irresponsible and like nice things. (Reply to this)

	terpsichoros 2008-03-23 07:17 pm UTC (link)
	If you ever need to banish thoughts of fucking the state, imagine the state personified in Edward M. Kennedy. That should eliminate any desire to fuck the state whatsoever. Cuz that attitude is just so 1973, and is as dated as bell-bottoms and cocaine. (Reply to this)

rintheamazing
2008-03-23 08:38 pm UTC (link)

I don't find this as much with alcohol, although I do find that lately I enjoy one really tasty drink more than drinking beer until I fall down.

I do, however, notice that I got just as excited yesterday over my new sofa as I have over new video games and the like. Don't get me wrong, I still love my new video games, but I think the excitement over furniture is probably one of those grownup-ish things.

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	Off Topic. jeffpalmatier 2008-03-23 11:17 pm UTC (link)
	Hey, Ferrett, have you seen this? Top Ten Craziest Star Wars Tattoos: http://www.theforceintheflesh.com/topten/ (Reply to this)

	pavel_lishin 2008-03-23 11:22 pm UTC (link)
	One day I'll know what it's like to drink "just for the taste". (Reply to this)

fitfool
2008-03-24 11:36 am UTC (link)

Not too expensive a habit if you compare it to drinking a glass of these $60 bottle scotches while you're out at a restaurant. Plus if you're just sipping a shot a night, that bottle gets savored for a good while, right? Like montykins, I still haven't developed a taste for whiskey. (or beer for that matter) But luckily, the world of wine and mixed drinks is still open to my tastebuds for exploration. Enjoy your nightcap!

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	zillah3 2008-03-24 05:39 pm UTC (link)
	"I'm not quite sure how the punk, mosh-pit addict who once wanted to fuck the state feels about this." I'm sure he would feel better if you lived in a (at least partially) dry county... ;p says the woman who really does live in a partially dry county! (Reply to this)(Thread)

	kisekinotenshi 2008-03-25 12:29 am UTC (link)
	Amen to that! I live in a partially dry county too. I fuck the state with my vodka a lot. XD (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2008-03-27 06:35 pm UTC (link)

When I was a wee boy, I couldn't understand why my parents had art up on the walls. Not the low grade posters you see on dorm walls, and not prints of the great works of history. Just art, some original and some prints.

Now, I look around my house and see pieces of my own, some original and some prints, and I smile.

Admittedly, this (http://www.l5rsearch.com/images/cards/Kitsuki-Yojimbo.jpg) is one of my originals...

(Reply to this)

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